Miller Fork

[ynp1]

Keep it coming! Hey I am just trying to have a fund raiser! Lets bring the dollars in for the Miller Fork loan!

Thanks tactless very helpful... So should I reply with, "tactless- gumby the moderators did a good job with that one". No I will not do that. I am sure you are not a gumby and are truly a great and wise climber.

[dustonian]

Serenity Point is privately owned and the landowners have been very clear that they will tolerate NO trespassing up there.

[toad857]

So, here's the deal. When I first posted on the topic, I showed my girl friends, and she said I was being a hypocrite because I don't donate to the cc. I told her how I have in the past, with both time and money, but that now I don't donate to organizations I don't believe in.

So, I made a deal with her. If I got a quick reply about if the area is open or closed to climbing I would donated $50. For every negative comment I would take away $5 from my donation. I knew this was a safe bet! And it was. I took 11 comments as negative before Pig jumped in.

But because pig was so helpful I just donated $20. I know it is not a lot, but I don't have much. But, I ask others to go back, and if you think your comment was negative, and not useful on this topic, you should go donate!

Dustonian, I think you need a $25 donation, to refill your karma bowl!

Oh yeah, I never did get a straight yes, or no, to whether it is OPEN or not. But hell this was just a fundraiser anyways!

You sound like an asshole.

[ynp1]

Thanks toad for all your support! I am just trying to make some money for the cc... Did you donate today? I did and I am trying to get others to donate!

If donating makes me an asshole, then I am proud to be an asshole!

[THB]

Dustonian, I think you need a $25 donation, to refill your karma bowl!

ynp1 - Whereas I don't disagree with everything you have said in this forum, I do think this one was way off.

How about anytime someone clips a bolt that Dustin, or Kipp, or whatever developer has placed... then that someone donates $1 on the developers behalf. I think the developers are covered... Hell, even if someone donates $1 anytime they take or fall or lower from a bolt that a developer has placed, then I think the developers should still be covered!

Plus, those people that develop 80% of the routes probably influence a lot of other people to donate. I donated back when the rrgcc was purchasing the pmrp. And I know that I'll continue to donate because I'm excited to see what comes of the mfrp. And I wouldn't have any reason to continue to donate if it weren't for the awesome routes that I'm sure will be developed w/i the mfrp.

Thanks Developers.

[Meadows]

How do you open something, if it is not closed? I would think most people after reading that would assume it meant it was closed, until the cc opens it.

I know you don't want to agree with me and you are sticking up for your friend, but it was a whack statement! But, it did end up leading to a lot of good information being released to the public. So all in all it turned out to be a good thing.

Oh, I see ... this about appreciation of semantics. Did you know that the word "closed" is not the only antonym of the word, "open"? In fact, Thesaurus.com lists the following words as antonyms for open (besides closed): limited, inaccessible, unavailable, etc. Let's not stop there, we should list some synonyms too! These following words would also fit into the construct of Josephine's sentence: cleared, unsealed, made passable, unimpeded, etc.



Thanks for your donation and contribution to the community. And it sounds like your girl is a keeper!

[Howie Feltersnatch]

ynp1 - Whereas I don't disagree with everything you have said in this forum, I do think this one was way off.

I don't. Most of his post in this thread are at best condescending.

The idea that anyone should thank any of these "developers" is horseshit. Everyone of those folks do new routes because they enjoy bolting/doing new routes... well, either that or they enjoy the attention they get from being a "developer". Thanking someone for participating in a hobby that they willingly enter for their own enjoyment is ludicrous. YNP1 will probably do as many first ascents this year as anyone participating in this discussion...however, his ego doesn't seem to need handjobs from the community in order for him to feel fulfilled in his efforts (but I'm pretty sure he's taking free handjobs anyways if your offering).

I went to the PMRP last weekend and all I saw were massive amounts of erosion, soil compaction along cliff lines, a cliff line ecosystem destroyed, a network of trails that are washing into the streams below, the clear cutting of 6'-8' wide trails that are immediate erosion concerns, a general ignorance of and lack of respect for nature, and tank-tops. I will not be donating any more money to this cause. Perhaps instead of focusing on "developing" (why the fuck is this term being used anyways? This isn't a subdivision or a strip center.) the MFRP, maybe the climbers coalition should focus on maintaining some area in a way that is less destructive. Trail day seminars on how to interact with your surroundings in non-intrusive ways instead of how to build a 6' wide highway to your nearest trampled crag might be more beneficial.

Before someone says "you have to have all of this because of the massive amount of people that come to the red", you are creating a self sustaining cycle where the land loses. The more highways you build to the crags, the more the masses are going to swarm them. The more you spray online about your new routes the more folks are going to trample that area and the experience that the original ascentionist had is going to be lost. Don't buy any of that? How many folks on here have climbed in Cashiers Valley? There is world class rock there the same way there is in the red, you just have to want it more, and in the end the experience is more rewarding.

Have fun raping and pillaging.

[dustonian]

My what a high horse you have, be careful not to fall. I've been to Cashiers Valley, does that make me too cool for the Red too?

[THB]

I went to the PMRP last weekend and all I saw were massive amounts of erosion, soil compaction along cliff lines, a cliff line ecosystem destroyed, a network of trails that are washing into the streams below, the clear cutting of 6'-8' wide trails that are immediate erosion concerns, a general ignorance of and lack of respect for nature, and tank-tops. I will not be donating any more money to this cause. Perhaps instead of focusing on "developing" (why the fuck is this term being used anyways? This isn't a subdivision or a strip center.) the MFRP, maybe the climbers coalition should focus on maintaining some area in a way that is less destructive. Trail day seminars on how to interact with your surroundings in non-intrusive ways instead of how to build a 6' wide highway to your nearest trampled crag might be more beneficial.

I'm not an expert on soil compaction and cliff line ecosystem destruction (although I do think I'm very conscious of these issues), but it sounds like you are. I think you've just volunteered yourself to give some seminars or lectures on how to minimize massive amounts of erosion for the RRGCC. Let me know when and where they are, I'll come hear what you have to say. I'll even help promote it to get the attendance really high to stroke your ego.

But seriously, all joking aside. If you are an expert on these issues. Then step up. The RRGCC needs people like this to help teach people about these issues and about how to avoid or minimize these issues. So if you are passionate of this stuff, and if you really know what you are talking about, then stop ranting about it on this online forum, and actually do something about it that'll be constructive.

Thanks for your help.

[tpowell]

The idea that anyone should thank any of these "developers" is horseshit. Everyone of those folks do new routes because they enjoy bolting/doing new routes... well, either that or they enjoy the attention they get from being a "developer". Thanking someone for participating in a hobby that they willingly enter for their own enjoyment is ludicrous. YNP1 will probably do as many first ascents this year as anyone participating in this discussion...however, his ego doesn't seem to need handjobs from the community in order for him to feel fulfilled in his efforts (but I'm pretty sure he's taking free handjobs anyways if your offering).

As someone who doesn't develop, bolt, clean, or anything that pertains to the addition or maintenance of routes in the Red, I think this is a rather ridiculous statement. Just because they enjoy what they do, doesn't mean we shouldn't be thankful they do it. If you fall on a bolt that you haven't placed, you should be thankful that a developer took the time to buy the right bolt and place it properly. If you're into trad and you rap off anchors, be thankful that a developer took the time to put those anchors there. If you don't do any of that you're either free soloing, or you're rapping off trees. Judging from the rest of your post, I can surmise that you're not rapping off trees and you're definitely not Alex Honnold. There's nothing stopping the handful of developers in the Red from chopping their bolts when they've finished, or skimping on proper equipment to save money. Developing is expensive. So you can at least be thankful that they willingly donate up to $50 to put up a route so people like me, who are broke as shit, can enjoy them. Yeah, dustonian posts are full of all sorts of douchebaggery. But he's earned his right to be an douche by developing, and so have all the other developers (who you can probably single out after a few days on these forums). Moreover, thickskin goes a long way in the real world. I advise you grow some.