Risk Assumption

Post by **anticlmber** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:22 pm

im not saying you have to pull test the bolts but a VISUAL inspection can go a looooong way to being safe.

does most wear happen out of sight?? yes this is true but to just blindly clip and go is crazy. am i guilty of it? sure, much more so when i was dumb to the process or ideas of it all. now i inspect from the ground and on route have seen those bolts tht make me go, "whoa, DO NOT FALL here!" most of those are up high enough to be fine. on the routes that make me go hmmmm, i evaluate and either do them or don't based on MY judgement. even if 200 people did it before, it sucks to be 201 when 200 was all it will hold. the fact is that sketchy shite is out there and it is up to the INDIVIDUAL to asses it for THEIR needs and comforts, NOT others.

CLIMBING IS INHERENTLY DANGEROUS YOU COULD BE HURT OR KILLED

Post by **charlie** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:24 pm

In the Blue Mountains thread caribe and charlie wrote wrote:
charlie wrote:
caribe wrote:.......they ought to be prosecuted!
By who? For what? Does that not scream "slippery slope" to you?
yes, it sure does. i take it back. it still pisses me off though.

This is the problem. What is this "held responsible" concept everyone keeps talking about? How is that to be enforced, and by who? You want some judge and group of lawyers setting guidelines and/or holding one of your buds criminally liable? Would you like development to stop altogether except for private property and secret crags where you would not be welcomed because you are a stranger and may sue?

Closed crags and no development are the logical after effects of this concept. For the love of more routes and more development please don't even humor this kind of discussion. We will all lose.

Post by **Bob&Pam** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:40 pm

We wish John was still with us--for so many reasons. But in this case, he really understood tort law and would have explained better than me that anyone can sue anybody for anything--and win. It all depends on judges and juries. Pam and I have never trusted any bolt anywhere here since early in our climbing careers, when we first did Possum Lips--shortly after it was bolted--and a bolt came out in my hands as I was clipping it. I put it back in, clipped it, and went on since it was going to be loaded vertically. We didn't blame it on the original bolters...they did the best they could in this crappy rock, using standard methods of the time.

We love the Red River Gorge, but look--the rock here sucks, and that is part of the fun for those of us who've been here a long time. Don't get me wrong--it is important to try to improve bolting technique, and in the long run that'll decrease the probability of failure, but nothing we can do is a guarantee of safety. What's sad is that lots of noobs don't get that, and are used to the safety of gyms, or better rock.

The best thing we can do is practice safe techniques and share them.

Bob

P.S.: Driving in Lexington is far more dangerous than climbing. They might as well sell cars there without turn signals....

Post by **krampus** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:06 pm

I agree charlie, lawyers and regulation should not be brought into climbing and it would suck if they were. its a reallly crappy situation, to condone and eliminate all guilt from some jackhole's death trap paves the way for more jackhole deathtraps to be made, but to take action would require forced regulation, a regulating body, and drastically increased access issue which would suck even more.

Post by **anticlmber** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:16 pm

your mom sucks more

Post by **krampus** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:05 pm

lets just confuse everyone into apathy

Post by **DayTriper82** » Fri May 08, 2009 1:29 am

Absolutely talk to people, keep eachother informed about shoddy or rusting/aging gear. We can also take it a bit further: we can be the climber who replaces the sun-bleached webbing or that rusted quicklink. its a small, inexpensive, and powerful gesture.