I'm not sure I understand the "you have to pay at all cost" mentality. I see no point in having to pay to climb on Public Land unless the FS is going to start buying bolts and patrolling the cliffs for people that are "impacting the area" in more than a normal way. Probably isn't going to happen.
Private land: If the land owner is cool enough to let you climb for free, then take it and be grateful. If the landowner wants compensated for the land use, then let them charge a fee. But then there is that sticky liability issue with charging. Personally I think most land owners are going to welcome climbers without charging, or they just won't want anything to do with them.
Murry property: Different issue all together. It belongs to climbers for all to use and not just a small portion of the local population should bear the financial burden. I think what needs to be looked at is does the RRGCC want to allow climbers to freely climb there and hope that people feel the need to give in return, or does it risk alienating potential donors by demanding payment to play. Would a visiting climber say screw the reserve when there are many other places to climb at the moment? I don't know.
If put in place, the biggest problem would be enforcement of a permit system. Who is going to be out at every cliff, every day of the week, all year long. And even if the "enforcer" comes across a few permitless climbers - what then? And, don't even start talking all Rambo and shit, either.
The only thing I can see working at the moment is to charge for a Preserve parking pass. It probably wouldn't make as much money as charging individuals, but it has a built in enforcement. If the coalition gives the local towing company the go ahead to start towing cars out of the Preserve parking lots, I think they'd patrol the area. They seem to have done it at the behest of Charmane Oil. And, nobody wants to be towed in BFE. One part of the pass goes on the dash, and another part gets carried by the climber as a receipt and the car gets logged in at whatever establishment is going to sell the permits. I think that should keep any funny business by the towing company in check.
That's all I think I might somewhat know. Maybe.
Climbing Permit
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captain static
- Posts: 2438
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 6:05 pm
Paying directly or indirectly to climb on public land is not unheard of. The beloved Eldo has both a parking and walk-in fee(http://parks.state.co.us/Parks/EldoradoCanyon/Fees/). Rainier, in a National Park, has a climbers fee of $30 for a yearly pass. There are some in the tourism camp that have been talking for years about making the Gorge a National Park. Heaven forbid what would happen to climbing if that came down?
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh
"hey hey hey boo boo lets steal this pic a nic basket - an this rack." "damn yogi mr. ranger is gonna shit a brick."captain static wrote:Paying directly or indirectly to climb on public land is not unheard of. The beloved Eldo has both a parking and walk-in fee(http://parks.state.co.us/Parks/EldoradoCanyon/Fees/). Rainier, in a National Park, has a climbers fee of $30 for a yearly pass. There are some in the tourism camp that have been talking for years about making the Gorge a National Park. Heaven forbid what would happen to climbing if that came down?
Parking passes for the Murray property do create the need for enforcement, which means either someone gets paid (unlikely), or kind volunteers monitor to see if cars have passes. What would be the consequence of not having a pass? Towing? Is that practical for a back-road dirt lot? Further, does the RRGCC coalition have that authority? (since they own the land I would assume so, but I am just trying to suggest possible problems).
Basically we all just need to man up and donate more money to continue mortage payments on the land the coalition currently owns...
Basically we all just need to man up and donate more money to continue mortage payments on the land the coalition currently owns...
Courtesy of Andrew: "I don't think you will damage your escort unless she trips because she is so strung out on blow. Most people just take them to the rest area."
If you really wanted to go that route, it wouldn't be that hard. All you would have to do is tell a towing company they can tow anyone who doesn't have a permit hanging from their mirror. It would be in the tow company's interest to randomly check the lots. Wouldn't take any extra work from volunteers or paid people. That's probably not the kind of PR that is wanted for the PMRP though.
The theory of evolution is just as stupid as the theories of gravity and electromagnetism.
I aint paying taxes anymore if I have to pay to climb, ill support local funds like I always have, and help raise money to keep areas open like the SR, but by godly if I will pay money to buy a lcimbing permit! HELL FIRE!
Who Me? I gotta hitch hike god damn 18 miles to get a god damn beer......that's bullshit.
Just wait. At the rate the US population is growing, there will be entrance fees for every popular state and national park to control the numbers. The days of free climbing are numbered. Look at how much "free" climbing we have right now. The PMRP and Muir Valley make up a huge percentage of the most popular climbs in the area and both were not free, they were bought.
The theory of evolution is just as stupid as the theories of gravity and electromagnetism.