Muir Valley or Sandy's ass - as good as they say?

[pigsteak]

the best route is the one you've sent.
human nature.

power2u, you just are an ego feeder climb some 13a after 20 goes, and then call it a pile. I dare you.

michelle, that potato salad really is the best in the world..or so I've heard.

scin, did my new lines make your latest list of "the best ever"? if so, keep it secret.

mcrib, any rock is good rock. not. muir has as many crappy routes as the next crag. and as many superb lines. it is the latest flavor, and it is fashionable to blast the latest rage. anyone remember their loyalty to some damn yellow bracelet just a year ago? what, did cancer get cured since then, or did folks just forget to accessorize today to go to the healthclub?

mueller, were there any routes at Muir that you considered worthy of classic status?

[ynot]

Go do Shock And Awe and then be quite. Muir is sweet. The grading will come around. I got on a great sport route and then a crappy one. Did 2 fine trad lines.I can't tell you how many stars because I didn't pay any attention to that. I know how many I would give them after climbing them. I'm not complaining.

[KD]

Muir is a fun place to climb and it's great having an almost worry-free parking situation

[tomdarch]

A classic should be pretty sustained in my opinion.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but the above sentence seems to sum it up. You have a very specific criterion for your definition of 'classic'.

[longlegsrule]

the best route is the one you've sent.
human nature.

the best route for me is a whole list of ones I will probably never send

Muir rocks (the hike out doesn't )...and I'm sure all the older walls chipped when they were younger...

[weber]

Ah, I see two weeks have passed on this forum without any complaints about Jared Hancock's work. Time to get back to beating up on him again.

Mr. Mueller (and a few others), just how many routes have you put up at your own expense of time and money for the enjoyment of other climbers? A huge number of climbers (most who have more sense than to post on this cesspool forum) think he's done a pretty damned good job.

I've been a climber in the gorge for a long time ... I don't mind that Muir is laughably soft, it makes the gumbies feel all warm and fuzzy about themselves when they spray at Miguel's...

Robert, are you any different than those spraying gumbies at Miguels when you spray your righteous indignation on this forum? Different soap box, same old spray. "I'm to be listened to and respected cuz I've been around these parts since Miguel was in diapers..."

There are a helluva lot of other gorge climbers who, like you, are long in tooth who don't share your opinions. They just have better sense than to share them here.

You applied your "laughably soft" tag to Muir -- not to just a few climbs by one or two developers . Some of the respected old timers (other than yourself) with years of route development experience who have put up climbs at MV, such as Chris Martin, Eric Anderson, Tim Powers, Mike Susko, Greg Martin, Barry Brolley, Kipp Trummel, JJ, and others might take issue with your "laughably soft" critique.

As for quality grading. Hell man, they are only opinions. Yours is no more or less credible than a gumbie's.

"That old sage, Mueller, proclaims the quality of this route to be overrated. Damn. I guess I didn't have as much fun as I thought I did."

R

[dhoyne]

It is very easy to get on an internet board and bash someone else's work. But the proof is simple: count the cars/climbers. Seldom does a weekend go by that Muir isn't full of climbers. If the rock was bad, the routes sucked, and the grading scale was way off, people would have stopped climbing there already. In contrast, Muir has a very consistant, and full crowd. My hat is off to those that have invested unreal amounts of time and money to develop this great area.

To those that don't like Muir: feel free to climb elsewhere. I'm sure you can find all the sandbagged climbs and super hard, pristine rock that never fails that you want in other areas.

[robertmueller]

A classic should be pretty sustained in my opinion.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but the above sentence seems to sum it up. You have a very specific criterion for your definition of 'classic'.

TOMDARCH, I realize that is my opinion of classic status, but I was under the impression that the general climbing community felt that's what classic meant as well? Sometimes this differs for people who want to send grades over their head and look for one move wonders, but do most people feel one move wonders are classic? I don't know, maybe they do.

PIGSTEAK - good point, there are many great lines in Muir, and at least four of them stand out as classics in my mind. Jesus Wept, 50 Bucks, Lip Service, Plate Tectonics.

WEBER - I don't understand how you pass the buck from me questioning route quality in Muir to me questioning Jared's ability to establish new routes. According to the guidebook, Jared is only involved in 2 of the 5 routes I mentioned in the original post. I never mentioned him by name, only Muir as a whole.

JARED - I don't know people's user name, so I don't know if you have posted to this topic, but let me say I can appreciate a passion for climbing and an overexuberance for your own routes. That is good to see people excited about what they have invisioned and then created. No offense was intended to you personally, it was more directed at Muir as a whole. It seems that classic status should be recognized and agreed upon by the community over time and was wondering why so many routes in Muir were given that elevated status when they were so new. Ray answered that wonderfully for me, thanks.

SCIN - thank you for answering my question. I felt it was an issue that needed to be addressed.

[overhung]

For Gawd's Sake... ridiculous.

[gunslnga]

Robert stated......
it was more directed at Muir as a whole. It seems that classic status should be recognized and agreed upon by the community over time and was wondering why so many routes in Muir were given that elevated status when they were so new.

Gunslnga responds......
It would seem as though Weber named some pretty legit ole' schoolers who have set and climbed these "NEW" routes. If experienced climbers, who are not biased to Muir, are making these statements about Muir routes being classics, I would trust they're opinion based on they're experience elswhere on other "Classic Routes". I was at West Wall with some of the old wise climbing sages this weekend, and they have stated one climb(Go West Young Man ) was bound to be a classic. I asked what this meant, when explained, I agreed it had the very features mentioned. I don't know if what I was told is your definition of "Classic" but these three seemed to think so. So if everybody now goes by your opinion, Muir will be a desolate wasteland in a month or two, but I think not!
And as for Jareds Youthful exuberance, drive on, soldier, I'd carry your drill anytime!!!! as always my 2cents....