Pre-order the Red River Gorge 4th Edition

[camhead]

Hehe, well, since I'm laid up with an injury, I'm going to just second-guess away. I was just thinking that the RRG, more than, say, the NRG, has mostly crags that are predominantly sport or trad. The common scenario would be Long Wall or Pebble Beach, which have tons of trad, but maybe one standout sport line (The Gift or Straightedge), or, conversely, a place like the Gallery with one standout gear line. I can't think of too many crags where there is an equal distribution of sport and trad (FRC, Sky Bridge, and maybe Gold Coast).

For the most part, those who come to the RRG just for choss gullying would be all set buying just the northern section. But, someone who wants to sample all the best sport of the region would be missing out big time if they did not include Left Flank, Military, and FRC in their tour. So, sportos will have to buy both (more $$$ for Ray, woo!).

Anyone know if the iphone app that is included with the book purchases will include both northern and southern regions?

[EricDorsey]

I think north/south was the right call. A seperate book for trad and sport does not make much sense to me. It would be kinda dumb to have to carry two guide books to climb at a single crag...

Not really. No different than carrying one big guidebook.

And I would say that the number of people who decide to do both trad and sport on the same day at the same crag is relatively small. If you included the information on a few sport routes that are located at a predominantly-trad areas, like Long Wall, in the trad guidebook, the problem would have been solved.

Well agree to disagree I guess but I am with dustonian on this one. Myself and all my friends will usually bring a small rack with us everytime we go sport climbing. For instance if you go to the PMRP and climb sport all morning and get tired its nice to jump on an easier trad line or two at the end of the day. Same thing with Muir, mostly sport but there are some fun trad lines as well. Or emerald city....or global village.... or roadside(if it was open)... or ESB/FRC etc. Why would you want to carry two guidebooks for the same crag/area? Seems crazy to me as I know lots of people who climb both... If I am going to the PMRP I want ALL the climbs in one guide book since that is where I will be climbing for the day.

you included the information on a few sport routes that are located at a predominantly-trad areas, like Long Wall, in the trad guidebook, the problem would have been solved.

Hmmmm if only there was some type of new guide book coming out that covered the predominantly trad Northern region but also included the few sport climbs at each crag too... Wishful thinking I guess.

Either way doesnt matter, the decision has already been made.

[pigsteak]

camhead....we just finished a new wall this week...9 lines..here goes....3 trad, 1 mixed, and 5 sport.....start packing those cams son.....

[ray]

Separate sport and trad books was an idea tossed around but the final decision made more sense and creates a much cleaner split for the guide.

I can't imagine the amount of work that would have to be done to partition out the trad lines. It would almost be the equivalent of starting over. Topos, descriptions, any reference to sport lines in trad descriptions and vice versa, recommended lines in crag intros, ugh.

[dustonian]

Thanks for not propagating the bizarre artificial segregation that is already so extreme with many folks in the Red. It's all rock climbing, dividing it up by anything but geography would have been lame as hell. Also super drumacksiked you guys decided to put the forgotten old trad crags back in...did Eye of the Storm the other day & it kicked ass!

[ray]

Oh yea, and the dividing line between north and south is Miguel's Pizza.

[pigsteak]

and being the center of the universe, i assume it can be used for east/west demarcation as well....

[lena_chita]

Either way doesnt matter, the decision has already been made.

True. But i still like my idea of a 3-ring binder with several separately-bound small booklets in it better. Oh well, there is always next guidebook, right?

[EricDorsey]

Either way doesnt matter, the decision has already been made.

True. But i still like my idea of a 3-ring binder with several separately-bound small booklets in it better. Oh well, there is always next guidebook, right?

haha I do like that idea actually... make it happen ill buy one!

[ynp1]

I really like guidebooks, and I also like rays books. I think he does a great job! But... Why so many additions so fast? It is like buying the new iPad and you are all excited about it and then... BOOM! The new one is out and you are the looser with the old shit!

Slow down the production! If people need updates they can get it on the Internet or app.

How many guide books does the red have now in it's history? 3 by Johnny, and now 5 by ray and one select??? And climbing has only really been booming sence the 80's! What other climbing area has this many guidebooks?