Pre-order the Red River Gorge 4th Edition

[J.D]

Just curious, but why is it that the biographical pages of the original developers (and current ones, of course) of the gorge are the same as the third, second, and first additions? I could tell you from memory what Larry Day thinks of Jodi Foster's uncanny appearance to Skeletor. I was hoping that maybe there would be some new first-hand accounts from the persons being talked about (Porter, Day, etc.). Essays and the like, I suppose.

Looks great otherwise, and I am elated that the crags left out of the third edition will be included in the fourth. And the photos look fantastic as well.

[KD]

Will be ordering both volumes asap. Very nice work Ray. With the guides and this board you do a lot for us. Thanks!

[ray]

Just curious, but why is it that the biographical pages of the original developers (and current ones, of course) of the gorge are the same as the third, second, and first additions? I could tell you from memory what Larry Day thinks of Jodi Foster's uncanny appearance to Skeletor. I was hoping that maybe there would be some new first-hand accounts from the persons being talked about (Porter, Day, etc.). Essays and the like, I suppose.

Looks great otherwise, and I am elated that the crags left out of the third edition will be included in the fourth. And the photos look fantastic as well.

Two new personalities have been included in thiis edition. Believe it or not the process of creating a one page bio of someone is pretty involved for me so the others are left as is.

[Spikeddem]

I have been wondering whether or not you would choose to include Roadside since you don't include other closed crags. Have you included Roadside?

[SCIN]

Roadside is included due to its historical significance, semi-previous closure, and still uncertain future.

[lena_chita]

Where is the border between North and South?

Emerald City, Zoo, Roadside, Torrent, Muir-- all of them considered to be the South for the purpose of these books?

[camhead]

Where is the border between North and South?

Emerald City, Zoo, Roadside, Torrent, Muir-- all of them considered to be the South for the purpose of these books?

On the cover, the subtitle for the "South" section contains the "Natural Bridge" sector, which I believe encompasses most of the areas that you listed. Except for Torrent, which is south of Natural Bridge area.

I'm sure that Ray mulled over this, but I'm wondering if a North/South division was the best for this book, or if it might have been done more efficiently by having separate sport and trad guides. I dunno...

[EricDorsey]

I think north/south was the right call. A seperate book for trad and sport does not make much sense to me. It would be kinda dumb to have to carry two guide books to climb at a single crag...

[lena_chita]

I think north/south was the right call. A seperate book for trad and sport does not make much sense to me. It would be kinda dumb to have to carry two guide books to climb at a single crag...

Not really. No different than carrying one big guidebook.

And I would say that the number of people who decide to do both trad and sport on the same day at the same crag is relatively small. If you included the information on a few sport routes that are located at a predominantly-trad areas, like Long Wall, in the trad guidebook, the problem would have been solved.

Better yet, it would have been nice to have a guidebook in a 3-ring-binger format, with removable individual booklets for each crag or area. So if you go climbing to PMRP, you pull out that booklet. if you are going to Eastern Gorge-- pull that one out...

[dustonian]

And let the armchair second-guessing begin! Mtn Parkway is the divider. 2 books based on location makes perfect sense. Two books for trad and sport makes zero sense, as many crags have both. I would estimate I take a rack to the crag about 70% of the time.