Replacing Steel Biners

[climb2core]

I was on Cell Block 6 and noticed that someone had turned over a very worn looking biner below the crux bolt so that the worn part was at the top. I am assuming that it used to be on the draw at the crux and was switched. Anyways, I was gonna put on an aluminum one but thought that it had a short term fix and really needed another steel one to maintain the quality and safety.

In light of this and the many perma-draw routes out there, I think it would be good to carry a few steel biners for replacement purposes. What is the gold standard and where to get them?

Thanks

Oh, BTW... I did send a PM to Rick about this one and will gladly replace it next time I visit the Surf.

[DonnyP]

Which bolt are you talking about, and what do you consider the crux on Cell Block 6? I've been on that route a few time in the last couple months and noticed the 'biner on the second bolt is getting a little sharp / worn (probably not sharp enough to be dangerous yet), and there is also that 'biner on the extended draw before the first undercling crux that sticks open and has to be shut manually sometimes. I didn't mind these too much because they didn't seem like hazards yet, as long as the climber is attentive, but a sharp 'biner before a crux sounds dangerous.

I like the idea of climbers who seek out routes with perma-draws carrying spare steel 'biners. I might be considered one of those climbers, and I wouldn't mind paying this toll for the privilege of climbing such great routes without the hassle of hanging draws on one attempt, redpointing on another attempt, and then cleaning the route somehow. If there is someplace one can buy steel 'biners in bulk at a discount, it would be nice to know of such a place.

[climb2core]

Which bolt are you talking about, and what do you consider the crux on Cell Block 6? I've been on that route a few time in the last couple months and noticed the 'biner on the second bolt is getting a little sharp / worn (probably not sharp enough to be dangerous yet), and there is also that 'biner on the extended draw before the first undercling crux that sticks open and has to be shut manually sometimes. I didn't mind these too much because they didn't seem like hazards yet, as long as the climber is attentive, but a sharp 'biner before a crux sounds dangerous.

I like the idea of climbers who seek out routes with perma-draws carrying spare steel 'biners. I might be considered one of those climbers, and I wouldn't mind paying this toll for the privilege of climbing such great routes without the hassle of hanging draws on one attempt, redpointing on another attempt, and then cleaning the route somehow. If there is someplace one can buy steel 'biners in bulk at a discount, it would be nice to know of such a place.

The first crux... big throw to ledge around 5th bolt? Some people do figure 4 to reach it. The draw below that bolt is severely worn and flipped upside down so that the sharp part is hanging on the metal wire draw. I am almost positive that someone took it off the crux bolt and switched it out with the one below. It needs replacing very soon...

[bcombs]

Just curious why the second bolt is sharp. Is it from lowering climbers while standing back from the cliff? I don't recall any hard moves down low.

CSC, it is easy to do that move static without a figure four. Right hand up the gaston and then a wicked left drop knee (almost inverted) up to the ledge. I'm short and did it that way. It never felt hard.

[climb2core]

Just curious why the second bolt is sharp. Is it from lowering climbers while standing back from the cliff? I don't recall any hard moves down low.

CSC, it is easy to do that move static without a figure four. Right hand up the gaston and then a wicked left drop knee (almost inverted) up to the ledge. I'm short and did it that way. It never felt hard.

Thanks, I will try that next time. I don't recall seeing too much wear at the second bolt.

[dustonian]

I think Climb Tech's are the best and cheapest one out there currently. THB also mentioned this in the Motherlode rebolt thread, so maybe PM him?:

one other thing... i was going to purchase some steel biners (for replacing bad biners on perma-draws, or bad biners on anchors, etc...)

dave scott did this a while back and he got a super bargin on some steel biners and so he bought a bunch that he's been scattering throughout the gorge... i forget exactly which brand of biners he bought... but they have a red gate (i think...) and i'm sure you've seen them at the lode amongst other places...

at any rate... i can purchase the C.A.M.P. gym safe carabiner which is a steel biner with an aluminum bent gate and a keeper pin, they retail for $9.95 each... i can get them in packs of 3 for $21/pack, with shipping (if i order 20 packs) it works out to about $7.65 per biner... it's not a great deal, but it's better than $9.95 each... and if i order more than 20 packs than the price per biner keeps going down a little bit at a time...

if anyone wants in on this, than just shoot me a p.m. and we can organize a big purchase of steel biners... or, if anyone knows of any deals that are better than this one, please let me know... i'm all for jumping ship if we can get cheaper steel biners elsewhere... (i haven't done much shopping around...)

let me know... thanks...

[SS]

The majority of the draws on cb6 are sharp from lowering. If u replace them they are only going to get worn out again. Why not spend your money on thousands of bolts that are going to need replaced. Too many people getting in over their heads since they don't have to hang em. Leave one permanent halfway down to clean with. Hang em or don't climb. Stop whining!

[dustonian]

Red herring. The draw described in the original post is sharp from so many people falling on it.

That said, the continual replacing of permadraws in the Red is unfortunately a bit of a bottomless pit. Ropes are just too sandy here and the climbing too popular.

[climb2core]

The majority of the draws on cb6 are sharp from lowering. If u replace them they are only going to get worn out again. Why not spend your money on thousands of bolts that are going to need replaced. Too many people getting in over their heads since they don't have to hang em. Leave one permanent halfway down to clean with. Hang em or don't climb. Stop whining!

SS, who is whining? The draw in question is worn 1/2 way through and as I said, I believe it used to be on the draw right at the first crux. However, I am assuming it was switched to the bolt below and flipped upside down to prevent it from cutting a rope on one of the future falls. Rick is aware of it and is planning on replacing, or I will do it the week end after July 4th. I hope that he takes a pic of it.

People climbing on any fixed gear need to be vigilant and aware of the wear and tear that is inevitable. If steel perma's are not put in place, someone will soon enough leave their project draws on it and either forget about them or leave them there for others to "enjoy". So, just better to accept the reality and be part of the solution vs sticking your head in the sand...

[caribe]

Weird, I was just there on Sunday with a posse and we saw no problems with the draws. A lot of clean whips and takes, but half worn through biners?! Not. The caveat is that on cb6 you are clipping from below, noticing a bad biner might be difficult. I am going to look at every one when I am there again.