Hey Sandbagger

Post by **pigsteak** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:07 pm

So, here we go, Ray start downgrading the routes at Solar Collector. First, he climbs them on a zero humidity 35 degree day. Plus, I thought grades weren't to be downgraded unless they were 2 letter grades off. And on another note, the concensus on both of these downgraded routes was their former grades, not Ray's new sandbagged grades.

What gives, guidebook boy? Folks at your level have no idea what 12a feels like anymore. I am now thinking Malice is closer to 13b.

Anyone else think we need to have weak climbers write the guidebooks?

Post by **One-Fall** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:33 pm

Count me in as an author. Only way ill ever climb 13!

Post by **mike_anderson** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:35 pm

Wow, I never knew those grades were so controversial.

Post by **Brentucky** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:25 am

Werd pigsteak, sign me up! Ray sucks!

P.S. Ray, I'm sorry for saying you suck. Pretty please don't downgrade any more of my soft 5.12a's (you took my first you evil bastard)!

Also, while you're on the Solar Collector why don't you go ahead and bump up Ethics Police so I can chase some more numbers with a less bruised ego. I haven't officially touched it yet, but I'm afraid to because I already have a good idea about how the story will end. I already have enough 11d's that have sent me home with my tail between my legs!

Also, it seems Magnum Opus and Ohio Arts need a downgrade as well, they have both been sent by way too many people that don't climb that hard which is of course how I know they exist! Damn no good number chasers!

Post by **SCIN** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:32 am

I'm willing to negotiate on Supafly but Blue Eyed Honkey Jesus at 12c!? Come on.

Post by **SCIN** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:39 am

Hey Lurkist, wasn't it you that started the thread about the Red turning soft? Well I'm sure you'd support the downgrade of your route then right? Check 8a.nu. Everyone is calling it soft. Even a "really soft" thrown in there. Same thing with Supafly.

Post by **the lurkist** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:56 am

coming from the guy who FA'd it. Blue Eyed Honkey Jesus is 12a, maybe b.
and in case anyone cares for opinion, or just to stir the pot
SupaFly (CM route) is 12a.
Ethics Police (RM route) is 11d.
Buddha Hole (Neal's route) is 11d.
Herd Mentality is 12c imo.

Post by **SCIN** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:58 am

Hell yea, there ya go Piggy. Bam!

Post by **Sandman** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:02 am

I agree with both of those down grades... Also one route ive always thought needs to be addressed is 'All That Glitters' compared to other trad routes of the same grade... its about 12a/b.

I think there is a few routes that truly deserve up grades also... like 'NagyPapa', most people send Thanatopsis before that thing, and it is for sure REALLY SOLID 14a.

Also, a trend I see on 8a is people doing hard routes and saying "soft" in the comment section. However they still list the route at the given grade to get the points. If you pay attention you'll notice most people say "soft" for like over half the hard routes they do... Its more of an ego fluffer and to impress people, as in "so and so did Omaha Beach, and called it soft on his 8a, wow he's strong" (on side note having an 8a score card is lame)

Heres the best point towards this B.S., Climbing is about a personal struggle, not racking up points or saying "I'm this level of a climber" so try to concentrate on the quality of a route and how much fun your having.... I agree to having a guide with accurate gradings... but dont whine over a letter grade on a route.

If something feels soft for the grade... try a harder route,
If something feels hard for the grade... get stronger

Post by **Meadows** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:01 am

Herd felt much easier to me than Jesus.