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Re: Fixed Gear
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:05 pm
by climb2core
dustonian wrote:I don't really understand what you are proposing Ian. That we pull all the draws from... Drive By? Madness Cave? Dark Side? Bob Marley? Purgatory? Steel AND aluminum? Even if they're not sharp? Be specific. What about when draws come back and you, like the Crew, have moved on? This will continue to be a perennial problem, and in the long run, individuals need to be educated to cover their own asses and wipe themselves afterwards. You just can't keep the 2-3% from all those 10's of 1000s of visitors to the Red from leaving draws on hundreds of steep routes spread across dozens of crags here. That said, I totally agree that all the aluminum stuff needs to come off popular crags, for what that's worth.
BTW, Margarita's incident happened at Maple, which is loaded with aluminum mank. Rifle has enjoyed a hugely successful run of support from the local climbers and city council in getting over 90% of their routes outfitted with steel draws.
I was proposing removing aluminum gear, with an exception for a method for short term projecting.
Steel stays. I have ideas to get more money for more steel too.
The ethic will live on beyond my or your stay at the Red.
Re: Fixed Gear
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:06 pm
by climb2core
tbwilsonky wrote:experience tells me this will sort itself out sans Facebook. organically... after someone dies.
That is, exactly what I am afraid of.
Re: Fixed Gear
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:06 pm
by clif
i'm a lot like Petreus, i need to be in the game, i'm a player. jk
c2c, i really do appreciate your concern. i think having the Ben and Laura routes at the Motherlode is a great idea.
anyway, to keep the controversy alive, but which has been dormant for an unusual period considering the stakes:
for me the main issue was the expense and attention needed for maintenance, and if the past argument about the burden the Weber's must bear are considered, it seems a lose/lose proposition for Muir to endure the expectation of fixed draws, esp. if the threat of closing Muir unless donations are increased is still active.
Re: Fixed Gear
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:07 pm
by dustonian
Dmack wrote:Havent been out there in awhile but watch the biners on Check Your Grip...a super heavy travelled climb with a very sandy base as well as a moderate grade seams like a disaster waiting to happen. That one seams like it wouldnt be to bad to hang and clean on your own draws to...Just a thought
Yeah I agree Dru, those need to come down. It was fine back in August, but by know they may be ready to come down. Good example of a route that doesn't need them, much like Far From God. I think that was part of the "Mank" spree...
Re: Fixed Gear
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:08 pm
by dustonian
climb2core wrote:dustonian wrote:I don't really understand what you are proposing Ian. That we pull all the draws from... Drive By? Madness Cave? Dark Side? Bob Marley? Purgatory? Steel AND aluminum? Even if they're not sharp? Be specific. What about when draws come back and you, like the Crew, have moved on? This will continue to be a perennial problem, and in the long run, individuals need to be educated to cover their own asses and wipe themselves afterwards. You just can't keep the 2-3% from all those 10's of 1000s of visitors to the Red from leaving draws on hundreds of steep routes spread across dozens of crags here. That said, I totally agree that all the aluminum stuff needs to come off popular crags, for what that's worth.
BTW, Margarita's incident happened at Maple, which is loaded with aluminum mank. Rifle has enjoyed a hugely successful run of support from the local climbers and city council in getting over 90% of their routes outfitted with steel draws.
I was proposing removing aluminum gear, with an exception for a method for short term projecting.
Steel stays. I have ideas to get more money for more steel too.
The ethic will live on beyond my or your stay at the Red.
What about super steep routes that are currently still aluminum but should be steel (several in Madness, Bob Marley, Dark Side)?
Re: Fixed Gear
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:09 pm
by climb2core
Dmack wrote:Havent been out there in awhile but watch the biners on Check Your Grip...a super heavy travelled climb with a very sandy base as well as a moderate grade seams like a disaster waiting to happen. That one seams like it wouldnt be to bad to hang and clean on your own draws to...Just a thought
Perfect example of a route that absolutely doesn't need "permadraws".
Re: Fixed Gear
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:12 pm
by climb2core
dustonian wrote:What about super steep routes that are currently still aluminum but should be steel (several in Madness, Bob Marley, Dark Side)?
Pull them this winter. I will talk to you about ideas how we get steel up on them this spring.
Re: Fixed Gear
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:29 pm
by Willy
Why don't more routes have a fixed steel draw or two just for cleaning? Seems like a good midway point to me.
Re: Fixed Gear
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:30 pm
by climb2core
Willy, that would be the plan for the "moderately" steep routes... say 20 to 30 degrees or so.
Re: Fixed Gear
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:32 pm
by dustonian
Actually, a good number do or did have cleaning draws, but aluminum draws just reaccumulate on the other bolts without steady policing of every crag.