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Somewhat true, yes.
But you don't have to pull up a bunch of slack and clip it to yourself in case you drop the rope. And you are never more than an armload of slack before the belay catches you. In case something did go wrong.
It is still less steps that need to be double checked.

J-Rock wrote:

Wes wrote:Tr'ing through the anchors is much worse. Because you generally see people hangdoging, which is a little saw effect when they go up a foot or two, then back down a foot. And TR'ing runs the rope accross the anchors twice, once on the way up, and once on the way down. And, once the tr is set up, usually you see people take several runs. So, you might end up with 6-7 times the rope runs accross the anchors, where lowering is just one. Just go look at the steep / hard routes that people don't TR, but do lower through.

Wes

I understand your point Wes. I wasn't thinking about people top-roping through the actual anchors, hang-dogging, running laps, etc. That's why people top-roping should use quickdraws. Then the last person up the route can clean it.

This is the real problem. Not lowering. Lazy climbers or groups that have one leader/cleaner, who leads the route, then cleans the anchors so everyone can TR while they go to the next route. That is what causes the most wear, and the main reason anchor hardware need to be replaced.

I think you see it more on easier routes for the same reason - someone sets it up for their beginner friends, and goes on to other routes. The other reason you don't see it so much on steeper routes is that, without draws for directionals, it is really hard for someone to TR very much. But on 11's that are not as steep (king me?), you still see the TR wear.

Wes

Aenima wrote:It is still less steps that need to be double checked.

How so?
Double check that you're clipped in to the both anchors before you weight them directly so you can pull in an armload of slack (and either way it only needs to be an armload of slack)
Double check that you're attached (by a knot or by a rappel device) to a rope that is going directly through both anchors.
Double check that your rope goes back to the ground or that your belayer has taken in the armload of slack before you unclip from the anchors.

Spragwa wrote:I do it a tad differently. I leave the rope through the draws, pull slack through the draws, make a figure 8 on a bite and clip it to my belay loop (that way I am still on belay through the draws). Then, I untie, run it through the anchors and retie. I double check my system, untie the figure 8 and ask my belayer to take me back on them. I'm never off belay. NO chance.

The only problem with this is if you are cleaning after TR'ing. In which case, you would be totally off belay for a bit. Unless you back clip the belayers side of the rope into the last draw. But then you just have one draw between you and the ground, and sometimes backclipping is a pain. With the pass-a-bight-through method, you are always on at least two draws.

When I clean on the way down (ie, after a lead), I just clip in with one draw and then do the pass the bight anchor cleaning thing.

Wes

How many times have you seen someone stranded at the top because they dropped the rope? I've seen it at least twice, which is twice too many!
I take that out of the equation.

Wes, good point on the backclip. Which I usually do after TRing(through my own draws by the way)

That's lame. Maybe they should have pulled up some slack, tied a bite and clipped it to a draw. That way it's a little harder to drop.

Wes wrote:

Spragwa wrote:I do it a tad differently. I leave the rope through the draws, pull slack through the draws, make a figure 8 on a bite and clip it to my belay loop (that way I am still on belay through the draws). Then, I untie, run it through the anchors and retie. I double check my system, untie the figure 8 and ask my belayer to take me back on them. I'm never off belay. NO chance.

The only problem with this is if you are cleaning after TR'ing. In which case, you would be totally off belay for a bit. Unless you back clip the belayers side of the rope into the last draw. But then you just have one draw between you and the ground, and sometimes backclipping is a pain. With the pass-a-bight-through method, you are always on at least two draws.

When I clean on the way down (ie, after a lead), I just clip in with one draw and then do the pass the bight anchor cleaning thing.

Wes

I don't think that i've explained it well. I'm never off belay even while TRing. THere may be some additional slack out, but I'm not off belay.

If you clean the draws and don't thread the rope through the anchors, you are off belay at some point.

Wes

I do the same thing as Sprag as far as how I stay on belay during cleaning. To address what you just said-- I leave the draws in until my belayer has pulled up all the slack. Then, I make sure that they've got me, ask for slack again, unclip the draws, have them take me tight again, and lower. Maybe Spragwa does the same thing. Not the most efficient way, but it's what I'm used to and it makes me feel safe.

I don't clean the draws until the rope is threaded through the anchors and re-tied to me.