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lol...but see, your logic is breaking down. you wouldn't "let me" do anything. I get to determine that. you are just living on the land, you don't get any say in the process. I do. It is my dog, my pile of sh*t. And after he goes number two poopie, I have decided to let all else play in the pile of dog dookie.

pigsteak wrote:lol...but see, your logic is breaking down. you wouldn't "let me" do anything. I get to determine that. you are just living on the land, you don't get any say in the process. I do. It is my dog, my pile of sh*t. And after he goes number two poopie, I have decided to let all else play in the pile of dog dookie.

So are you arguing against red tagging now?

I take that back. I'll only steal the projects of people who threaten to beat the F-ing shit out of me, and call me a lazy f*ck. Much more incentive there.

Seriously, though, what's the motivation for getting a forced FA, where no one else was allowed to even try. If you worked on the route with someone else rather than threatening them with ass-kickings you would figure out the beta more quickly, be pushed to climb it more quickly, get stronger, make love not war, and get more chicks.

Putting up a route is quite a bit of work, but it's fun, thought-provoking and exciting. More than worth it just to be able to climb the route FA or not.

Isn't it just cool to have your very own project that nobody else can get on? If you analyze it you'll probably find an empty pot of no explanation. However, the gut tells me it's just cool and feels good. Especially when it's at a crowded cliff because you don't have to wait in line.

I think you have to look at the current red tagging ethics and then extrapolate it for more route developers. There seem to be a fair amount of developers at the red, but only a couple who do a ton of bolting. Red tagging isn't a huge deal because most of these bolters tend to be reasonable people(accept the ones that want to beat everybody up), and either send the proj, or open it relatively quickly.

But if you had lots of not so reasonable bolters you could very easily end up with tons of new routes all red tagged for a very long time. This would be annoying to regular climbers, but think of the other bolters too... A serious bolter would have a strong argument if he said, "I would have bolted and sent that route by now if you hadn't bolted it and just left it red tagged for the last 6 months".

The other problem with red tagging is its completely unenforceable, even it is the 'right' way to go about things, you'll often never know if somebody snaked it or not, so what's the point?

That brings up an entertaining question. If a climber sends a red tagged route and doesn't tell anybody, is it ok? He hasn't spoiled the ego of the bolter, even though the FA has technically been stolen. If he takes the info to his grave is that OK?

Shamis wrote: A serious bolter would have a strong argument if he said, "I would have bolted and sent that route by now if you hadn't bolted it and just left it red tagged for the last 6 months".

That's a good point.

"accept the ones that want to beat everybody up" easy to say until you have one of your bolted projects poached. Hence - "The Castle Has Fallen 5.13b" FA unknown

If you're gonna beat somebody up you should at least get his name.

I've read the thread, and all i have to say is that if someone gets on my red tags or Kipp's or any other one in the red i will beat the F-ing shit out of you when i see you. All of these "time lines" is bull shit, respect the hard work that goes into developing, lazy f*cks.

Allah also said,

"YO YO, holms i can get on what ever red tag i want, just as long as i dont do it, that is my opinion and the way i do things" (see brilliant orange thread)

Perspective has a funny way of changing one's opinions.

schwagpad wrote:I take that back. I'll only steal the projects of people who threaten to beat the F-ing shit out of me, and call me a lazy f*ck. Much more incentive there.

Seriously, though, what's the motivation for getting a forced FA, where no one else was allowed to even try. If you worked on the route with someone else rather than threatening them with ass-kickings you would figure out the beta more quickly, be pushed to climb it more quickly, get stronger, make love not war, and get more chicks.

Putting up a route is quite a bit of work, but it's fun, thought-provoking and exciting. More than worth it just to be able to climb the route FA or not.

Maybe, people dont want help finding out beta. a few Wise old men once told me that its all one big puzzle and figuring it out on your own is much better than following somone elses path. im sure you understand that with your line of work and past climbing history.

people that know me know i get at the routes i bolt quick. but when i bolt something one weekend and come back another weekend and find it already sent that pisses me off and i feel really disrespected.

If someone has a route that they would like bolted and would pay for the hardwear i would put it up for them, or if i had a route that i was trying and wasn't close on i would ask for the person wanting to get on it to pay for the hardwear. I know you have done that in the past before.

and about the previous message, i didnt type that mad, i was laughing and watching desperate house wives