The old Redriverclimbing.com Forums
https://rrcarchives.com/forums/
Yes you can.Anyone that says that you don't have to untie to lower is obviously toproping thru the anchors and has bad ethics. There's no way to put the middle of a rope thru a loop without using one of the ends.
Caspian wrote:I disagree with this logic. There are no extra major steps when rapping as opposed to lowering.rhunt wrote:In my opinion..rapping is not as safe and that should be the bottom line. Now before everyone freaks out, let me explain.
actually the lurkist explains why in the other thread, I'll quote him
"....Adding in the steps while hanging at the anchor of clipping in, untying, threading the rope and then hooking up the rappel device and rapping down invites error. As we all know, there is not room for error here.
Strictly from a probability stand point adding in all of these steps and done over and over many times, eventually someone will make an error. Probably someone less experience. Tired, having difficulty with the knot, probably not clipping in right or hooking up the rappel device wrong. Anyway, the mistake will occur, someone decks and is really hurt if not dead.
It is the old adage of a chain is as strong....
Remove as many steps from the process to avoid one an error being made at one of those steps...."
Both Lowering and Rapping one has to:
- Get to the top
- Clip yourself in
- Untie
- Thread the rope through the anchor
- Tie in or load the ATC
- Ask you partner to put you on belay or verify you rope ends reach the ground
- Unclip
- Lower back down or rappel
nicely put..thanks for saying it for me Bushwhackerbushwhacker wrote:*- Ask you partner to put you on belay or verify you rope ends reach the ground *
Nope, my partner never takes me off belay, so we eliminate the chance of miscommunication. I thread the anchor and lower without either of us saying anything. No obnoxious screaming "ARE BOTH ENDS DOWN?" like friggin' gumby rappellers.
Wes you make an excellent point here but I think the reason harder, steep sport routes don't wear as fast is because people usually do not top rope them. It's the 10's that get the most traffic and therefore get the most wear.Wes wrote:Lowering is NOT THE PROBLEM with anchor wear - Top roping through the anchor gear is what really wears it out. Go look and the anchors on harder, steep routes, and as a whole, they don't look nearly as bad as the anchors on the more moderate routes.
I rap when lowering will be hard on the rope. All other times, I lower.
Wes
your not serious are you? Do you think they teach rappeling in the gyms? Where do you think most kids these day learn to climb and then head to first when they want to try climbing on real rock..not the trad cliffs in the midwest...J-Rock wrote:If rapping freaks some people out then they should not be climbers. They are obviously choosing the wrong sport and they should find another hobby.
If your local climbing gym does not offer rappeling lessons, then they should look into it. It's stupid to say you're a climbing gym and yet do not offer these things. Rappeling is a HUGE part of climbing. Sport, trad, multi-pitch.... whatever way you climb, don't you think it's a good idea to learn how to rappel, rhunt? You can't say, I'm only climbing sport for the rest of my life, so I don't need to know how to rappel.rhunt wrote:Do you think they teach rappeling in the gyms? Where do you think most kids these day learn to climb and then head to first when they want to try climbing on real rock..not the trad cliffs in the midwest...
i agree 100% I learned rappeling before I learned to climb 12 years ago before there were climbing gyms. The gym I climb at does not teach rappelling but then again they don't teach outdoor climbing. The reality is people these days learn to climb through the gyms and usually(read usually but not always) sport climbing and bouldering. Sport climbers just don't rappel when cleaning they lower. Not trying to get into a pissing fight here but I have say it is up to me and only me to decide what kind of climbing I will do the rest of my life, if my body lets me I will sport climb and boulder the rest of my life. I think it great that you and many others here on this board are in to all types of climbing but to assume other see it that way or will...it's not that way.squeezindlemmon wrote:If your local climbing gym does not offer rappeling lessons, then they should look into it. It's stupid to say you're a climbing gym and yet do not offer these things. Rappeling is a HUGE part of climbing. Sport, trad, multi-pitch.... whatever way you climb, don't you think it's a good idea to learn how to rappel, rhunt? You can't say, I'm only climbing sport for the rest of my life, so I don't need to know how to rappel.rhunt wrote:Do you think they teach rappeling in the gyms? Where do you think most kids these day learn to climb and then head to first when they want to try climbing on real rock..not the trad cliffs in the midwest...
The original point made was about the extra steps the lurkist claim that are included in rappelling and not included in lowering, this is was i was commenting on.rhunt wrote: you don't have to agree...it's my opinion but when I clean I never come off belay...that is the MAJOR difference.
Regardless of the order you do it, or whether you are "on belay" or not.....you still have to clip in, thread the rope, untie, reattach, and get lowered to the ground. All these steps invite error...but they are all essential to both lowering or rappelling. You can do them in any order you like....but they are still steps that need to be done....please feel free to share if anyone has figured out a way to skip steps.lurkist wrote: Adding in the steps while hanging at the anchor of clipping in, untying, threading the rope and then hooking up the rappel device and rapping down invites error.