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We have not dropped bombs on millions of people.

We asked the Taliban to give up Bin Laden. They would not, thus the Afghan war was necessary.

The Iraq war was optional and was opposed by quite a few republicans and especially libertarians. Not that I was among them.

cliftongifford wrote:Plus, there was never a formal declaration of war, where are the constitutionalists on this one?

Um, in case you were unaware, the United States has not formally issued a declaration of war since June 5th, 1942, against Romania, and really hasn't had the need to declare war. Both of the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were formally approved by congress, and the U.N. Security council further approved the current operations in Afghanistan. As far as legality goes, the war in Afghanistan is as legal as it gets, regardless of whether or not you personally think otherwise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaratio ... ted_States

they fund the war every year, and I believe twice so far under the O' administration.

What?

There are words coming out, but they don't make any sense...

Jay wrote:

cliftongifford wrote:Plus, there was never a formal declaration of war, where are the constitutionalists on this one?

Um, in case you were unaware, the United States has not formally issued a declaration of war since June 5th, 1942, against Romania...

That's exactly what I was pointing out. The US hasn't formally declared war since WW2. We now go under U.N. sanctions or just don't call it 'war'. Or we just say, "fuck the UN we'll go anyway." And I agree, fuck the UN!!!

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." -Thomas Jefferson

Non-interventionism: the diplomatic policy whereby a nation seeks to avoid alliances with other nations in order to avoid being drawn into wars not related to direct territorial self-defense.

Non-interventionism was the main foreign policy of the US before WW2. The war/interventionist mindset just continued throughout the century. Look at all the shit we've gotten ourselves into since then, now that we've adopted an interventionist policy. Iraq and Afghanistan will be seen by history in the same light as Vietnam and Korea, a waste.

L K Day wrote:We have not dropped bombs on millions of people...

CASUALTIES IN AFGHANISTAN:

Afghan troops killed 8,587
Afghan civilians killed 8,309
U.S. troops killed 914
Other coalition troops killed 647
Contractors killed 75
Journalists killed 9
Total killed in Afghanistan: 18,541

Afghan troops seriously injured 25,761
Afghan civilians seriously injured 14,956
U.S. troops seriously injured 2,742
Other coalition troops seriously injured 1,941
Contractors seriously injured 2,428
Journalists seriously injured unknown
Total injured in Afghanistan: 47,828

CASUALTIES IN IRAQ

Iraqi troops killed 30,000
Iraqi civilians killed 815,411
U.S. troops killed 4,376
Other coalition troops killed 318
Contractors killed 933
Journalists killed 141
Total killed in Iraq: 851,179

Iraqi troops seriously injured 90,000
Iraqi civilians seriously injured 1,467,740
U.S. troops seriously injured 31,616
Other coalition troops seriously injured 2,290
Contractors seriously injured 10,569
Journalists seriously injured unknown
Total injured in Iraq: 1,602,215

That makes 2,519,763 people dead or seriously injured as a direct result of the war. Yes, millions of people.

I call your source into question. Not because you posted it or I just don't want to believe you.

The only meticulously recorded casualties are on our side. Iraqi Army, Iraqi civilians, Afghan Army, Afghan civilians. All are a crapshoot.

I hate relying on Wiki as a source, but in this case, 'll use it since it has compiled multiple sources for me to show the wide variances. On the Iraqi side, the low estimate of casualties is 95k, with the high estimate at 1,033,000. That's a pretty big swing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

At best, those numbers are anecdotal. It's nothing against you. There's just been nobody keeping track...

Clifton - Bullshit numbers.

Regardless, of whether you think the numbers are bullshit... Even if it's 1/2 or 1/3 of that, it's still a whole hell of a lot of people.

L K Day wrote:Clifton - Bullshit numbers.

bullshit comment