RRC Archives

Meadows wrote:I agree that rapping is important to learn, I just haven't seen a logical argument for "steep-lovin sportos" to learn how. I've been on many routes at the Red and have lowered off and rapped off, but none required that I rap off.

on the steep, there is no reason--especially when climbers don't give a damn about anchor wear. If steep-lovin' sportos want to broaden their horizons and climb in other places, they should learn to rap. As I already said:

Sandy wrote:Meadows, every climber is going to have to rappel at some point. Yes, even you steep-lovin' sportos--unless you are planning to spend the rest of your days doing single pitch at the RRG...

Are you safer rapping or lowering if you get hit by rockfall

Rapping, by far. I always rap with a backup friction knot, and my partner is always by the rope to give a fireman's if needed. When lowering, any rock that hits me is probably gonna hit my second, who will then drop me because there's NO BACK UP.

Why do people that lower ignore the truth? Are they completely illogical, just ignoring the facts and not paying attention to what they're actually doing, or just plain stupid?

Again, there's a time and place for lowering. On at least 90% of what I climb, rapping is not only possible but better.


Anyone that says that you don't have to untie to lower is obviously toproping thru the anchors and has bad ethics. There's no way to put the middle of a rope thru a loop without using one of the ends.

Sandy wrote:

Sandy wrote:Meadows, every climber is going to have to rappel at some point. Yes, even you steep-lovin' sportos--unless you are planning to spend the rest of your days doing single pitch at the RRG...

For some reason when I first read that, I saw "even if you are planning ..." That argument works because some people plan to do just that (not me) and that's their prerogative.

dhoyne wrote: Anyone that says that you don't have to untie to lower is obviously toproping thru the anchors and has bad ethics. There's no way to put the middle of a rope thru a loop without using one of the ends.

I think the point that other have made is that you can always stay on belay. Also, you can not put the middle of a rope thru a loop without using one of the ends. Instead of using one of the ends put a bite of the rope through. Think about it for a second.

I personally prefer to lower down ( I feel more comfortable), and only rap when there is excessive rope drag. I can only think of a few sport climbs where I rapped from because of rope drag.

whiteout direct
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trad sucker

bushwhacker wrote:No obnoxious screaming "ARE BOTH ENDS DOWN?" like friggin' gumby rappellers.

Yeah, I totally hate it when people are safety conscious too!

dhoyne wrote:

When lowering, any rock that hits me is probably gonna hit my second, who will then drop me because there's NO BACK UP.

That's one of the reasons I prefer to be belayed with a Grigri.

ZSpider

J-Rock wrote:If rapping freaks some people out then they should not be climbers. They are obviously choosing the wrong sport and they should find another hobby.

Hell, climbing freaks me out. That's one of the reasons I do it.

ZSpider

*Rapping, by far. I always rap with a backup friction knot, and my partner is always by the rope to give a fireman's if needed. When lowering, any rock that hits me is probably gonna hit my second, who will then drop me because there's NO BACK UP.*

What's gonna happen to you if you get hit by rockfall while rapping with a backup knot? You're stuck up there unconscious hanging upside-down with a head wound while you're partner runs around the base like a headless chicken.

And if you're partner's lowering you using a grigri and gets hit, you're ok, because the grigri locks up by itself.

Tr'ing through the anchors is much worse. Because you generally see people hangdoging, which is a little saw effect when they go up a foot or two, then back down a foot. And TR'ing runs the rope accross the anchors twice, once on the way up, and once on the way down. And, once the tr is set up, usually you see people take several runs. So, you might end up with 6-7 times the rope runs accross the anchors, where lowering is just one. Just go look at the steep / hard routes that people don't TR, but do lower through. The anchors are not usually all that bad.

Lowering isn't an issue in real life. In theory, maybe it is.

Wes

Not everyone belays with a grigri.

Not everyone climbs with someone who's reaction to rockfall/unconscious rappeler would be to run around like a headless chicken.

Bushwhack, you might be climbing with the some "specialized" people.