RRC Archives

chriss wrote:A couple more

Flying monkeys 11d
crack the whip 11ish
beef stick 11d
J rats back 11c/d


There is also the list of routes in need of an upgrading. Maybe we should leave those alone

Please don't listen to ahab ever again! I'm afraid you missed one or two though then your list will be complete!

Mike, I climb these routes over and over and over. We train by hitting the Red during the week and climbing these routes. We see how many we can do in a day. I don't climb them once then never again.

You hit my button with the "piss on someone's birthday" remark. I'm not out to ruin anyone's birthday. Ever. I have no attitude and understand the insignificance of my climbing. My intentions with the downgrades are to try and make things a little more correct, not to take away anyone's sends. I'm not a masochist.

mike_anderson wrote:Wow, apparently I hit the right button.

Yeah, apparently you did. Don't you know that people get obsessive about these things?

mike_anderson wrote:I've always felt that the people struggling at those grades are the best suited to make those judgments.

I am not sure about this. If it is a grade you are struggling on (say, a grade you have redpointed a couple of climbs at, several leter grades about your best onsight), it is very likely that those climbs you managed to redpoint play up to your strengths, while the climbs at the same consensus grade that you can't send are most likely something that requires skills you lack. So of course they would feel harder and you will be biased.

I think someone is more qualified to make judgements about climbs that are somewhere in their onsight/flash range, maybe near the top of their onsight/flash. E.i. a grade that they are relatively comfortable on, because likelihood is that at that grade they have climbed a variety of climbs in different styles, not just a few that play up their strengths.

There are many 5.10s I get on now that i feel very sure I would not have been able to climb at all, let alone onsight, when 5.10 was my upper limit. And yet, looking at those climbs now, I can see clearly that they are not anything harder than 5.10 -- even though they might have one move that to me personally feels harder.

But you are right, of course, that it is impossible to compare things you've done years ago to things you've done recently. Things get distorted in the hindsight, and of course you have to take into account any progressionin climbing skills that might have occurred since then, as well as conditions, time of the day, etc. etc.

Which is why consensus is the best we can hope to get, and no matter what consensus is, there would be people disputing that grade ...

hey ray, it is my birthday today...feel better now?????

mike_anderson wrote:Wow, apparently I hit the right button. Sorry, man, I thought we were just having a discussion here.

To be able to pinpoint a grade means you have to vividly remember many of the other climbs of that grade you have done, including what the conditions were on the day you sent, how strong you were at that point in your life, whether or not you were in shape, and how much climbing you had done that day (to name a few). That's great if you believe you have that ability, and maybe I'm just getting old and losing my memory, but I can't remember all that. I've always felt that the people struggling at those grades are the best suited to make those judgments. But that's just like, my opinion, man.

I didn't realize you had a panel of experts you were consulting. Apparently these folks don't vote on the website...maybe they should. Again, my apologies.

apology: -1 point
debate skills: +1
the dude reference: +1
sarcasm: +1

total points for mike anderson in this thread: 2

downgrade that. bitches.

SCIN wrote:My intentions with the downgrades are to try and make things a little more correct, not to take away anyone's sends. I'm not a masochist.

that would make you a sadist, not a masochist. not that there's anything wrong with sadism or masochism, in fact they can both be quite enjoyable.

Calling out grammatical errors on the interweb: -20

Fucknut.

ouch.
SCIN is on a downgrading rampage. i’m outta here before all my glorious 5.11 sends are rendered null/void and i get my feelings hurt.
y’all have fun now...

I agree with everything ray does.

As much as nice Ray with his largely unparalleled knowledge of routes and rockclimbing in the Gorge usually harshes on my vibe, the times like this when he calls dumbasses out for being dumbasses make up for it.

None of you are as smart as SCIN and there's no way your guidebooks or website would even begin to compare. Your advice is appreciated though, from a rubbernecking a train wreck standpoint.

Didn't we decide a while ago everything was either 5.9+ or 12B anyways?

Sandman wrote:I agree with both of those down grades... Also one route ive always thought needs to be addressed is 'All That Glitters' compared to other trad routes of the same grade... its about 12a/b.

I disagree here. All That Glitters may be a one move wonder, but there is nothing 12- about that crux.

On a broader note, the butthurts that are flowing through this thread are awesome. We really need more of that here.