RRC Archives

You have to approach gumbies like you are trying to sell Amway. It really works, I learned it from Yasmeen.

charlie wrote: Sisyphean labor

We all know where you find your big words, and it ain't in a dictionary.

http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... php?id=479

And for helping gumbies out, my experiences are like most people - they just blow you off or outright become hostile when you politely suggest they might not want to do something unsafe. So, now I spend a couple minutes watching them to see if they are reasonably mellow people, and if so, I will try to help. If not, then they are on their own. Besides, even people doing really dumb stuff have a very small % of actually hurting themselves or others, maybe 1 in 100,000 dumb acts actually has serious consequences. It is amazing to me that it isn't higher, but that seems to be about the right odds. And I have done more then my fair share of rescuing gumbies from themselves, cleaned their routes, set TR's, and stick clipped the first bolts for them.

As for the gear, I am willing to take some verbal abuse to inform people about proper use of the hardware. They rarely take it well.

Here's my take on dealing with dumb gumbies - "firm, but helpful".

A while back I encountered some folks setting up a TR at Eden park using keychain biners (classic). I threw out a polite "what the hell are you doing?", to which they responded, "dude, these are super strong". I then explained that if they hurt themselves it could jeopardize MY access - and let them use extra slings and biners that I had.

Unfortuantely pointing out idiocy is often not enough....

Heh, even when I try and not help I teach. Dang.

It's been with me since I studied a killer Camus essay that explores the justification of philosophical suicide called The Myth of Sisypus. It's a lot like the mission of protecting gumbles from themselves.

What about the opposite: strong/experienced (I assume) climbers either fucking up or doing stupid shit? Last time down I saw 2 different "yikes" situations:

First, I saw some bionic kid get on a route that was a project not that long ago. Thin stuff was snapping off left and right, and he was pretty much going bolt to bolt. At one point he got up into a thin, chossy section with stuff popping off, then backed down to the bolt and took. His belayer said something like, "um .... can you clip into the bolt direct?" It turns out that he had loaded the grigri backwards! One of us (neuroshock, I think) rushed over and set up a second grigri to get him down.

The next day, we were at the 10 wall at Roadside, and a "grown up" couple got on one of the routes. They were in the usual "crowd" - I was over with folks on Jersey or stay the hand. At some point the belayer caught my eye because she was looking down and talking on a phone while belaying with a grigri. Not swift, but not a big deal... Until I saw her paying out rope! She was on the phone, totally not looking, lead belaying! I don't doubt that the climber was plenty strong and was "just warming up", but still! WTF?!?

Lesson - don't frack with the Gods...BSG

On more than one occasion I have left an area because I didn't want to be part of the rescue crew. I don't get enough days outside to waste them carrying out someone with injuries.

I have also given undesired verbal "help" when the offenders seemed receptive or the hike out was too far.

On the other side I have received "help" from people who had no business giving it. Like, "hey man, you should keep the rope tighter when your buddy is lead climbing;" or "hey man, you shouldn't use a GriGri for lead belaying;" or "hey man, that climb is missing a few bolts" on a mixed line. As insightful and helpful as these were, I couldn't help but laugh.

So where is the line between actual knowledge sharing, and just trying to look "experienced?"

i will say one of my pet peeves is performed by many an experienced climber/belayer---taking a hand off the gri-gri (i'm sure i'll hear disagreement about this). feel free if i am in direct, but otherwise, please keep a hand on the rope, even if i am resting (and especially if i am fumbling around, checking out holds, and you are talking to everyone else at the crag). chances are nothing will go wrong, but every once in awhile a freak accident happens-climber unweights the rope, then suddenly sits back, rope gets going through gri-gri, rope gets out of control, etc. i've asked belayers not to do it on several different occasions (allah, a belaying god, always gets really pissed off), but it's just something that makes me feel better.

correction-i mean taking the brake hand off (duh)

I agree. When I learned to belay it was with an eight ring, and shortly after that we got a stitch plate. It was drilled in to never, never, ever let go of the brake hand. I cannot shake the habit.