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I don't understand when people say that lowering isn't a problem for anchor wear. I do understand that top roping is a much bigger problem, but lowering is the same mechanism from the perspective of the anchors. Isn't it?

I have always preferred to rap, but am learning that when cleaning steep routes it's damn hard to rap, and not as safe. So sometimes now I lower. I knew I never should have taken up bolt clipping...

I think climbers need to know how and feel safe doing both, and they need to wisely decide when they are gonna rap and when they are gonna be lowered. Some routes require rappelling. Yes, even some sport routes. If you don't feel safe doing this, practice until you do. Or take up golf.

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I don't understand how top-roping is worse on the anchor wear than lowering. Lowering is done with the weight of the climber adding increased friction and the descending is usually done at a faster rate than ascending. So you have the increased weight and speed thus the anchors will wear more quickly. The top-roper is mostly climbing on the rock and although the rope is running through the anchors just like when being lowered, it is not done with the weight of the climber the entire time or done as quickly.

Yas is right - this a thread about PREFERENCE, but what would this forum be without an argument?

Sandy, you know you love bolt clipping! I agree with you that people should be comfortable with both, but the reality is, rapping freaks some people out and with good reason.

Oh, and if you saw the way I played golf, you'd know for sure that it's far more dangerous than climbing!

J-Rock wrote:I don't understand how top-roping is worse on the anchor wear than lowering. Lowering is done with the weight of the climber adding increased friction and the descending is usually done at a faster rate than ascending. So you have the increased weight and speed thus the anchors will wear more quickly. The top-roper is mostly climbing on the rock and although the rope is running through the anchors just like when being lowered, it is not done with the weight of the climber the entire time or done as quickly.

J-Rock, the only reason I indicated that TR'ing is a much bigger problem is because it's (probably) done more frequently, especially on moderate routes. I concur that lowering contributes to anchor wear. I'm open to learning why I might be wrong, though.

Toad wrote:I hope the vehement rappers are not being hypocritical. Are you guys pulling the rope up through the draws after every time you hit the anchors? You never get lowered - even if someone else is going to lead on your draws?

Good question, Toad. The original question asked what you prefer to do "after cleaning the anchors." It would be ridiculous to take the time to rappel if you're leaving your draws up and someone is going to either TR the route or lead on your gear. Do people do that??

If rapping freaks some people out then they should not be climbers. They are obviously choosing the wrong sport and they should find another hobby.

Why? If their intentions are just to clip bolts on overhanging routes and that's it, then why bother? (FYI: I can rap with no problem - I know others who cannot).

Meadows wrote:Yas is right - this a thread about PREFERENCE, but what would this forum be without an argument?

Sandy, you know you love bolt clipping! I agree with you that people should be comfortable with both, but the reality is, rapping freaks some people out and with good reason.

Oh, and if you saw the way I played golf, you'd know for sure that it's far more dangerous than climbing!

this debate is another good reason to give up bolt-clipping. The ethics of trad are much clearer!

Meadows, every climber is going to have to rappel at some point. Yes, even you steep-lovin' sportos--unless you are planning to spend the rest of your days doing single pitch at the RRG...

I can't believe I got sucked into this thread. I'd rather golf, or stick forks in my eyes.

I agree that rapping is important to learn, I just haven't seen a logical argument for "steep-lovin sportos" to learn how. I've been on many [sport] routes at the Red and have lowered off and rapped off, but none required that I rap off.

I'm lazy..lower away mate.