RRC Archives

Now I'm confused

Since when does being an experienced climber necessarily mean experienced belayer? I've seen many excellent climbers that can't belay very well. And, as you pointed out the release says: You should never climb without extensive training by experienced climbers. (what about the belayer)

So from what you are saying, everyone needs to be an expert in order to climb on the easy routes in the Valley.

Look. Nobody is saying that the rule shouldn't be obeyed. Their land, their law. But, if one can't intentionally fall on a bolt, then how can one properly train a belayer to be safe. And from what you have just said, if you aren't an experienced climber, then you shouldn't be there.

Of what technicalities and details are you speaking?[/code]

I took a huge v-whip on C Sharp last weekend. Must have been a good 40+er. You guys are right. V-WHPS are cool.

Fine, would you consider this clearer?

Acknowledgment of Risks, Assumption of Risk and Responsibility, and Release of Liability wrote: Muir Valley is open to individuals and groups for noncommercial recreational outdoor activities such as hiking, trail running, bird watching, etc. You do not need to execute this document unless you are entering Muir Valley for the purpose of rock climbing. Access to Muir Valley for the purpose of rock climbing is strictly limited to those individuals who are experienced and competent rock climbers who have previously registered here at this website (www.muirvalley.com).

http://www.muirvalley.com/release.html

I'll take it that one may not train a belayer in Muir.

Thank you.


But, why the place to teach people how to clean an anchor??

Toad brings up a good point. I was at Muir this weekend and there was a group from Canada practicing their falls. This probably isn't any different than a victory whip from a wear and tear perspective.

Many people take 'practice falls' not only to get their head right, but also to learn how to fall safely on different types of routes. I know that for me, my endurance sucks, and I am definately most likely to fall at the anchors. I don't think anyone is in disagreement about respecting the Webers wishes, I think its just a discussion on how much damage people think they might actually be doing.

Hey, who changed my status!

I definately need to take practice falls if I haven't been sport climbing in a awhile. Three or four big whips and you are all set. I often do it from the anchors becuase it is farthest from the ground thus less mentally trying for me. Still I won't do it at Muir.

I think the biggest difference between a victory whip and falling from the anchors is that you spray to your friends that you sent if you did a victory whip.

On the subject of victory whips, be careful and evaluate your fall factor.

I was at red rocks a few years back and some kid finished up Fear and Loathing(III) next to the gallery he took a big victory whip and decked into the rock wall that angles out behind the climb. I think that normally there is not so much slack out if you fell going for the anchors. He was seriously messed up and they spent quite some time trying to get the helecopter in position to get him out of there.

That being said, if you are in Red Rocks definately do Fear and Laothing. It is a super classic climb and if you are coming from the red should be no problem. Just watch that last clip.

I think everyone should take V-Whips this weekend on what ever route/project they are working on. I want to come to the crag and see V-Whips every where. I want V-Whips to become so popular, that everyone who steps out of that university bus takes a V-Whip. Maybe, you can get a free slice for every V-Whip. Your taking a very raw and personal emotion/expression and making it popular. In fact it will become so popular that it will become something you despise. So, for all those V-Whip forefather and mothers, start thinking of the next big thing because V-Whips were so 5 minutes ago.

I guess the positive thing about V-Whips is that someday it will employ people. It will employ people that can rescue inexperienced climbers that took V-Whips because they saw someone else doing it. I guess these people would be labeled as V-Wipes then.