RRC Archives

damn whatahutch, that might be the most agro I have seen you since oct 19, 1995. This new side of you should come out more often

pumpout2004 wrote:Or does the red river gorge geology yield poorer quality rock just outside of a very limited range? Maybe some of the avid cliff explorers can weigh in.

Yes. Compare rock to the north and to the south within the DBNF to the RRG area and you'll find:

1) Smaller/discontinuous bands of sandstone, or

2) Poorer quality sandstone, or

3) Both

That's not to say there aren't isolated gems, or even the random classic crag (Morehead are is the perfect example of dispersed climbing), but the RRG is without a doubt the region with the greatest concentration of high quality and tall sandstone cliffs in the state.

There's a reason rock climbing boomed in one of the most restrictive areas of the NF. There are so many more obscure and forgotten places along the Pottsville Escarpment where climbers could have gotten away with so much more for much longer (again, Morehead springs to mind), but they don't yield the sheer amount of interesting and quality lines.

Even within the RRG area the geology yields different types of climbing experiences. Boulder fields seem to be concentrated around the Spaas Creek, Indian Creek, Northern Gorge areas. There are a lot of long crack systems within the Gorge proper. The cliffs are consistently taller in certain areas. Some areas have fewer pocketed faces. North facing cliffs tend to be grungy. Some areas have much harder rock than others. Long Wall comes to mind.

The farther west you go the higher the sandstone band is in the strata, and the farther east you go the deeper it is in the ground. This has a significant impact on characteristics of the rock as well.

The age of a route has a lot to do with perception of quality.

How many on here started climbing when Roadside was a new crag? Did the 10 wall start out as a chossy pile?

I'd say even a lot of Porter classics weren't in as good condition as they are now when he cleaned, bolted, and sent in a single day.

Andrew, I agree with you when you say that Miller Fork has no hard routes. However, when I said that Miller Fork as a whole is a three star area, I wasn't confusing difficulty and quality. A route doesn't have to be difficult to make it a five star gem. I also think that the point you made about confusing five stars with very good excellent. According to the RRG guide book, aka the Bible (or your perfered religious text), a five star line is world class. Miller Fork is not world class.

lol... again, you've been to three crags out of 15 or more so stop talking out of your ass

I have been to the following crags at Miller Fork:
The Monastary
The Deep End
Fruit Wall
The Portal
Serenity Point
The Infirmary

I understand that is only a meager 31.57894736842% of the crags to be exact. On the other hand, these were the crags that were recommended to me to visit while at Miller Fork because they have some of the better quality climbs.

Apparently Miller Fork is the shit. Who knew? But people on the internet say it is, so it must be true.

Oh and P.S there are 19 crags at Miller Fork not 15

Whining on the internet does not become you. Maybe you need a new hobby besides clipping bolts and bitching.

Just some numbers to think about. (all numbers acquired from advanced search on guidebook)

Total sport routes of any star rating and any grade in entire gorge: 1264
Total 5 star routes of any grade in entire gorge: 73
Thus:
~6% of routes are 5 star

Total sport routes in Miller Fork currently: 158
If percentage holds: expected number of five star routes in Miller: ~10

Hmm, I might have to reconsider my earlier opinion.

This thread was created just to see how riled up we could get Dustin. Mission Accomplished (Bush definition).


Miller is a great area and will get better with time. There are some really outstanding climbs and cliffs, and there are still a lot of gems yet to be bolted.

Hardly riled up. Moral of story: Ohio climbing gyms are hotbeds of douchebaggery