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KD, you may well be right, I am analogy challenged

I like the idea of the bible, I have never read it all the way through, but I went to church when I was growing up and have heard the stories and what not, ultimately I like the idea of it and I would never be able to prove or disprove the existence god so I would never say I'm an atheist. However, the only reason I could never take the bible as an ultimate truth (except for the morality side of it) is because I have read this book

can you give us cliff notes of that book kramp?

krampus wrote:I like the idea of the bible, I have never read it all the way through, but I went to church when I was growing up and have heard the stories and what not, ultimately I like the idea of it and I would never be able to prove or disprove the existence god so I would never say I'm an atheist. However, the only reason I could never take the bible as an ultimate truth (except for the morality side of it) is because I have read this book

Embrace your side of the brain that demands reasons for believing things. There of LOOOOOTS of reasons to think the bible is invalid. The bible is like astrology, no real reason to think it is actually true. Don't feel like you have to fake till you make it Krampus.

damn you climbers and your atheist views. you make me feel at home.

The San Antonio Express-News:
"A study done by the Graduate Center of the City University of New York found that the percentage of the population that describes itself as “nonreligious” more than doubled from 1990 to 2001, from 14.3 million to 29.4 million people."

I think this may be a good thing...

Just some quick thoughts before you start reading ynp. I suggest getting a study Bible because it will help in giving notes that say when certain verses were added past when the original texts were written. It will also translate place names and make references to where those places are today and what they are named. Getting a translation you might think you like is a good thing too. If you want a translation that is more phrase translated that is a little more "modern" interpretation you can get The Message Bible. If you want a Bible that is more word for word get an English Standard Bible. I prefer a New International Version Bible because the translation team consisted of a a huge team of people from Three different continents and 12 different denominations running from Baptists to Angelicans to Mennonites. Their intent was to safeguard the interpretation from sectarian biases. Jesus sure didn't speak Old English with the thees and thous that are always quoted.

As for faith, I won't mention it, but know that we all express faith in different ways daily. Faith is just the belief that something we don't see exists. I have faith the money that is direct deposited to my bank is there, even though I never hardly see physical cash because I pay most often with my debit card. I have faith that there is a Fat Tire brewery, even though I have never been there. Just know that there are people that have far greater intelligences than the both of us combined that placed faith in Christ. That might sound crazy, but belief is not a determiner of intelligence. I won't mention more than that though.

As for discussion we could just post things about what we are reading and our thoughts on it. Post questions, ideas, intrigue, disapproval, things we think are humorous. Then the other one of us can respond.

As for reading the OT I suggest reading it to get a perspective of where the Christian faith comes from. It will also give a perspective on where the Islamic faith comes from. It is the book that the three major religions that are creating the tension and setting the stage for the next great war are based on. (Judaism, Islam, and Christianity). It talks about why the Jews and Arabs will always fight each other (due to having the same progenitor who was unfaithful to his wife and had a child though his servant girl). It is way more than a historical text, but if that is all you take at least you will understand that the Middle East conflict is not new and has been going on for nearly 4000 years.

I do suggest doing as Crankmas said. Start with the New Testament to see what Christ calls Christians to be. (Which is completely different than what the media portrays, either the right or the left media). In that way you will know what the majority of Americans should act like (since the majority align themselves as Christians) and yet do not. It is the shorter of the two texts. After that move on to the Old Testament. That is the exciting text (well they are both exciting, but in different ways). If the Old Testament was made into a movie it would be easily rated R not just because of the war and blood, but because of the sex. (Yes, glorified sex).

I am not trying to get you to believe anything Matt (that is up to you). I am not out to prove the Bible as correct or incorrect. I am just suggesting that if you have an opposition to the Bible find out why. Read it to understand what you oppose. I commend you for being open to reading it too. Not many people with oppositions to it would ever be so brave.

I am going to pick up Godless this week.

Come on, you can't take it literally. Taking notes and holding the words to have real meaning doesn't work. Just read it and pick out the feel good parts and ignore the rest, then tell everyone else who has critical thinking skills they are going to hell.

Ya'll make it hard for the rest of us that are on the fence.I would like to hold onto a bit of faith. Something tells me that when judgement day shows up, everyone of you starts praying to some higher power they always swore didn't exist.