RRC Archives

Petzl used to have images up showing that it was OK to temporarily hold down the cam (but not fully wrapped with hand) while feeding slack. I do recall taking a snapshot of the images and posting it on one of this many arguments. Although I would never do this with a skinny rope.

It was only 1-2 years ago that they found the new technique that is now in the white papers in image 8.

caribe wrote:

steep4me wrote: You don't need your hand on the rope at all times with a gri gri--you need yor hand OFF the cam if there is a fall (one way to have your hand off of the cam would be to grab the rope instead).

this is sad. There are so many reasons hashed through previously why this attitude is so very incorrect.

Ok, I'm going to advocate for the devil here.

The attitude may be incorrect, but there is nothing explicitly wrong with the statement. Anyone who has ever done a big wall aid route knows that keeping your hand on the rope while belaying a three hour A4 pitch is absurd. There are plenty of circumstances throughout the climbing spectrum in which it is not 100% wrong to take your break hand off quickly. Beyond "don't die," every hard and fast rule of climbing has exceptions, and I have found that people who adhere to "ALWAYS" and "NEVER" statements tend to not have extensive bases of experience.

Belaying is an art. Good belayers know that there is constant mental improvisation and analysis that goes into split second decisions between a hard and soft catch, taking in or feeding out slack, sitting down or jumping off a ledge. It is all condition dependent, and is second nature to many of us.

I know of people with ten years climbing experience, who have caught every variety of whip with different belay devices. Sometimes, their break hands may leave the rope. I would feel infinitely more comfortable taking a whip with them than I would taking one on someone with his brand-new gym belay card, and indoctrinated with the attitude that all belaying is is "locking off and sitting down."

End of rant.

So I'm confused about the GriGri Instructions. For example:

Meadows wrote:Petzl used to have images up showing that it was OK to temporarily hold down the cam.

I don't have a problem with a quick squeeze on the cam to whip out an armful of rope while maintaining eye contact with the climber. I don't think anyone does. This is the way that people have been belaying with the gri for years.

i never have and never will.
with todays skinny ropes you shouldn't have to do that.

camhead, been in this game 10+ years, guided for 7 of them and I won't say i never take a hand off but without a backup knot in the rope i don't.

while a person is climbing i NEVER take my hand off the brake end. that IS a black and white rule, period.

anticlmber wrote:i never have and never will. with todays skinny ropes you shouldn't have to do that.

The grigri and the rope break end are integrated. My hand is on the break end of the rope before, during and after the quick squeeze to lightening feed. My management of the grigri is rope-independent. It has to work the same for all ropes.
--â–º It is also a good idea to mentally/ physically separate activities with belay devices. With the grigri my palm is alway up. With the ATC my palm is down.

The grigri and the rope break end are integrated. My hand is on the break end of the rope before, during and after the quick squeeze to lightening feed. My management of the grigri is rope-independent. It has to work the same for all ropes.
--â–º It is also a good idea to mentally/ physically separate activities with belay devices. With the grigri my palm is alway up. With the ATC my palm is down.

I agree with this, I am not going to constantly change styles during the day on account of different ropes, my hand never leaves the break end.

you guys are both fine and i trust you and if it works cool.

everyone can belay the way they feel comfortable and as long as its "safe" so be it, i'll still be there to pick up the pieces either way if it ever goes wrong and i won't fault anyone.

be engaged- the breakhand thing is/is not paramount but in my experience an engaged belayer is the best belayer- yeah, you can talk to me but I may or may not respond given the circumstances of the "moment", relate to the lead climber any situation they need to be aware of, this matter is dependent on the priority of the situation, subtle things like stepping in to aid giving clipping slack and then stepping backward can eliminate the need to engage the belay device for this procedure- its the sum of the parts that comprise being "engaged" - belays are not unlike most elements of the climbers' gear, its best if you never notice their there until you need them and then ideally they have already done the job they were intended to do

word^^^