Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:44 pm
Page 4 of 16
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:47 pm
STOP! oh God....
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:25 pm
For some reason it is hard to find a grade consensus for certain routes. Though I agree with both of the mentioned downgrades. I would also add to the list (maybe just to see what people think), these are routes I here people calling soft:
Reticent 12c (easier than the other two 12c's in the cave)
Jesus Wept 12c (I think most people would agree, even though it was my first 12d)
Harvest 12c (about the same as resurrection)
swahili slang 12b
Irreverent C 12b (the same as false idol)
Directed Panspermia 12a
Magnum Opus 12a (Not the same grade as the other 12b's on the wall)
Zone of silence 12a (If you climb the path of least resistance )
Deep six 12a
Gladuator 11d / 12a
Ro ???
Ohio arts 11d
Immaculate deception 11d
Ball Scratcher 11d
Oh, and any route bolted by pigsteak
Reticent 12c (easier than the other two 12c's in the cave)
Jesus Wept 12c (I think most people would agree, even though it was my first 12d)
Harvest 12c (about the same as resurrection)
swahili slang 12b
Irreverent C 12b (the same as false idol)
Directed Panspermia 12a
Magnum Opus 12a (Not the same grade as the other 12b's on the wall)
Zone of silence 12a (If you climb the path of least resistance )
Deep six 12a
Gladuator 11d / 12a
Ro ???
Ohio arts 11d
Immaculate deception 11d
Ball Scratcher 11d
Oh, and any route bolted by pigsteak
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:40 pm
A few more to think about:
Kick me in the jimmy 11c (two letters easier then chainsaw)
far from god 11d (so many rests)
break the scene 11d (lots of rests)
wild gift 12b (at least a letter easier then steeleworker)
jack the ripper 11a (like 5 feet of sorta hard climbing)
Kick me in the jimmy 11c (two letters easier then chainsaw)
far from god 11d (so many rests)
break the scene 11d (lots of rests)
wild gift 12b (at least a letter easier then steeleworker)
jack the ripper 11a (like 5 feet of sorta hard climbing)
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:44 pm
speaking for the gumbies amongst all the hard climber downgrades...
Hatfield = SOLID 10d
Hatfield = SOLID 10d
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:49 pm
brent, that would be an upgrade. wrong thread.
back on topic, here's my list of 5.12s to be immediately downgraded:
any 12 on brentucky's spray list.
back on topic, here's my list of 5.12s to be immediately downgraded:
any 12 on brentucky's spray list.
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:53 pm
On a useless side note, what is the "consensus opinions of the experts" at which a person is "most efficient" in grading.
For instance, if you climb mid 13 you're probably not gonna have real good luck sorting a 5.11b from a 5.11c, especially if it's a jug haul that you can rest on every single hold on.
I was climbing two 5.12a's side by side a little while back, similar style vert climbs, some 13 climbers come by and 1-attempt both, no big deal, say they are about the same difficulty. I can tell that they were most certainly NOT the same difficulty. One was soft, probably 11d, the other was/is beyond me without trying it a LOT of times. I could tell a major difference.
My point is that people like Ray although you've climbed 100's more routes than me for far more data points probably can't really grade 5.10's and 5.11's as accurately as me who is much more of a gumby relatively speaking.
Whaddya think?
For instance, if you climb mid 13 you're probably not gonna have real good luck sorting a 5.11b from a 5.11c, especially if it's a jug haul that you can rest on every single hold on.
I was climbing two 5.12a's side by side a little while back, similar style vert climbs, some 13 climbers come by and 1-attempt both, no big deal, say they are about the same difficulty. I can tell that they were most certainly NOT the same difficulty. One was soft, probably 11d, the other was/is beyond me without trying it a LOT of times. I could tell a major difference.
My point is that people like Ray although you've climbed 100's more routes than me for far more data points probably can't really grade 5.10's and 5.11's as accurately as me who is much more of a gumby relatively speaking.
Whaddya think?
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:04 pm
I haven't lost touch with what a 5.12a, b, c, or d is supposed to feel like. But 5.11a versus 5.11b? I would probably have a hard time differentiating between those grades.
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:07 pm
A couple more
Flying monkeys 11d
crack the whip 11ish
beef stick 11d
J rats back 11c/d
There is also the list of routes in need of an upgrading. Maybe we should leave those alone
Flying monkeys 11d
crack the whip 11ish
beef stick 11d
J rats back 11c/d
There is also the list of routes in need of an upgrading. Maybe we should leave those alone
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:07 pm
No matter what, people will always disagree about the grades.
I cringe when I see Immaculate Deception called .11d-- because the move at the bottom really kills me, and my 5ft reach.
On the other hand, I think Ro is .11b.
I agree than Magnum Opus is soft for 12b.
but Amarillo Sunset? Umm... I'll call it .11d at least.
A friend claims that Ale8 is way easier than Chainsaw...
And the list can go on and on, with everyone defending their opinions till they are hoarse, LOL.
That's why I always liked seeing the consensus grading bars in the online guidebook. I know there would always be bias towards calling something the same grade as it is in a published guidebook just because that's how human psychology works. But with that in mind, if the consensus emerges that is different than the guidebook grade, then it is a solid reason to change the grade.
Relying on any one person to call the grades, even someone really experienced and familiar with the area, would always result in personal bias based on that person's clibing strengths, style, etc. Not to mention, how many times he/she had climbed that particular route, what conditions, etc.
I cringe when I see Immaculate Deception called .11d-- because the move at the bottom really kills me, and my 5ft reach.
On the other hand, I think Ro is .11b.
I agree than Magnum Opus is soft for 12b.
but Amarillo Sunset? Umm... I'll call it .11d at least.
A friend claims that Ale8 is way easier than Chainsaw...
And the list can go on and on, with everyone defending their opinions till they are hoarse, LOL.
That's why I always liked seeing the consensus grading bars in the online guidebook. I know there would always be bias towards calling something the same grade as it is in a published guidebook just because that's how human psychology works. But with that in mind, if the consensus emerges that is different than the guidebook grade, then it is a solid reason to change the grade.
Relying on any one person to call the grades, even someone really experienced and familiar with the area, would always result in personal bias based on that person's clibing strengths, style, etc. Not to mention, how many times he/she had climbed that particular route, what conditions, etc.