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reading this post reminds me of a serious issue I was recently reading about, the parallels are amazing. For all the amazing bolters out there....

so kipp when are you going to go back to illinois and finish off those red tagged routes you have had there for 5 years or so?

ah, how funny you should mention it, rookie. tell everyone exactly what I did in those cases.

kevin and cam asked about getting on them last year, and I had told kevin to rip off the tag and send. correct? and just last week Cam called again about a tag I had forgotten about that he and Big Brad wanted to get on. I told them again, rip off the tag and go for it. problem solved.

you, therookie, should know as well as anyone on here, I have never denied someone the chance to jump on something I have bolted. does Midnight Surf ring a bell, where 7 of the 8 lines I bolted there were FA'd by someone other than I. Only one of those 7 was truly beyond my abiities.

and krampus, I am not surprised by your "respect", although I do recall just a mere 3 days ago inviting you to also join in the FA party of a slab project.

I know most of you are just slinging shit, which is cool cause I do it with the best of em.

rookie, if someone who climbed harder than you walked your darkside proj without asking, would that be a problem?

hey now piggie, I was taking your side on this, I pictured you as that little kid. I say its all up to the bolter. You ask me not to get on a rout, I am out, plenty of other shit to do. If a bolter is being lazy, too damn bad, talk to them if possible. FA's are cool, but I just enjoy getting on new shit, and climbing with good people.

512OW wrote: Chriss... if you did Pistol Gripped... have em change it. It doesn't matter to me who climbed it first, just that it gets climbed...

I am glad that you are so understanding. If this is the case can someone please change the info in the online guide. I would like it changed to

Pistol Whipped
5.11d (M) ****
FA Chriss

Hopefully you don't mind the downgrade. Probably only feels harder without the proper technique (or humidity?)

so you are completely taking me, the bolter supreme, off of the FA?

damn dude, at least OW allowed me the courtesy of being named second on the FA. Seems like with all the 5-6 people listings on FA's in the southern region and at Muir (many which have never climbed said routes), a little "thank you" instead of "F you" would be in order.

I am so over this. Ray, please making the freaking change, and delete my name from all routes I have ever bolted. Climbers, the so called loving and generous group, have shown their colors again. Disrespectful...., cheap asses.

I wonder if removing the crux bolt on all my 70 plus lines would do the trick. You fools are probably too lazy to even fix that.

i don't know how sincerely piggy is with his anger/frustration but he's got a point. putting up routes is a ton of work and having someone snag your route is bullshit. i'm headed out to do some of the routes pigsteak put up in the last year this weekend and I'm damn grateful of the time and money he put in to them.

piggie do you bolt the routes for the pat on the back? I don't get that impression. You know how people are gonna be climbing is a self absorbed sport for predominantly self absorbed people. You've bolted some good routes you should feel good about that if people snake your shit you should feel good in the knowledge that they are pieces of shit and forget em. that being said I have never bolted a route and can't imagine my rage if someone took the fa. at least they thought it looked good

I think your going a bit overboard piggy, I mean, chriss should not have snagged your rout but he did get the FA, and if he feels that chosspile is 11d well....

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I think red tags are lame and I think every route should be open. First, they are the imposition of rules on a sport that should have none. Second, the ideal I think we all strive for is to appreciate the climbing, not any ego boost that an FA provides. I completely understand that it feels good to get an FA, but in my ideal world it would not make a difference to me. Third, they look ugly. Fourth it is an impossible rule to enforce. Fifth, people could probably lead it trad or solo it, so just let the crazy fuckers clip the bolts. Sixth, you can just glue on a bogus hanger at the crux and watch the assholes sail.

All that said, I have never knowingly stolen a project and I wouldn't really want to. As far as I know I have accidentally (in one case quite stupidly) stolen two projects. Sorry Lurkist (really wasn't sure, but should have known) and John Bronaugh.

By the way, I talked to andy about it the other day. He said he did give permission, but only because he knew they were going to climb on it anyway. Sort of points out the ridiculousness of it all. I think people should show some courtesy, but I think people shouldn't really red tag either.