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In no way was I in support of those crazy "god hates fags" folks.

I think that Caribe and I can agree on that.
I am not in support of them because I don't think they are actually living out their faith and passing on the grace that may have been bestowed on them. If they are actually true Christians.
I don't support them because they try to operate behind the front of Christianity.
Caribe doesn't support them because they try to operate behind the front of Christianity.

whatahutch wrote:Caribe doesn't support them because they try to operate behind the front of Christianity.

I don't support them because I think homosexual lifestyles are absolutely legitimate. I have seen some gay couples that IMHO are more livable and simpatico than most straight couples. Those crackpots are not the reason why whatahutch and the rest of us are discussing. It sounded to me like whatahutch had a fresh perspective on the whole thing. It no longer sounds that way.

caribe wrote:It sounded to me like whatahutch had a fresh perspective on the whole thing. It no longer sounds that way.

I have a lot of my own personal outlooks, but I can't bring them past the point of Grace. I can't bring them past the point of the Cross. I can't add anything more than that. Again, I have some personal outlooks that probably wouldn't seem fresh, and some that might. However, they are not the foundational truth. I started thinking that after three pages of writing that I need to boil it all down to the essentials. That is the most essential thing that I could boil it down to. I couldn't bring it past Eph. 2:8-9.

I have done some horrible things in my life; to myself, to the earth, to the people I count as my friends, to those I saw as my enemies, to the people I love. Things that I am regretful to my core for doing, and things I never noticed I was doing.

However, we have all done the same.

If you stand on the ground that says you are perfect than you at least deserve to have your own reality TV show.

whatahutch wrote:If you stand on the ground that says you are perfect than you at least deserve to have your own reality TV show.

Isn't that what you are doing by declaring yourself saved? By this you have brought yourself to a point at which you can forgive yourself. It is a way to deal with guilt and other feelings of spiritual/ moral inadequacies.

come on Caribe...read the bumper stickers brah "Forgiven..not perfect"

Whatahutch, at some point you will have to reconcile at least 3 things that are impossible to ignore:

1. The god you describe is not even close to the god of the bible. I have been through the entire bible and studied this for years and I have never understood where people get this "god is loving and just wants to forgive you crap". There are a parts in the new testament that send that message, but it's no where close to the amount of evidence for god being a manipulative, jealous, sociopath.

2. Research the history of the bible. Research who wrote it and when. You will be amazed at how fraudulent this document actually is! It's has been edited and revised with things added and subtracted for 1500 years. There is no shortage of literature on this point. I can't ignore this magnitude of historical fraud. Definitely look into this.

3. Most important, when people say they have faith, what they really mean is that they have faith in a small group of remarkably ignorant and corrupt people 2000 years ago that wrote all of this down. You have faith that what they wrote was accurate, which it most certainly is not.

so... a few of you believers say, " look around and see how beautiful the world is and all the great things that are going on around you", that is proof there is a god.

Well, I found out today that one of my friends died of cancer (hotchkin lymphome) at the age of 27. He was one of those people you meet and talk with for 10 minutes and feel like you have known the person for years. Always happy, full of life and always crackin' jokes. He was one of the nicest people I have ever met ( I am not just saying that because of what happened to him).

So my question is... When you praise and worship god for all the great things in the world... Do you also curse and blame god for all the bullshit that happens in this world? How about all the bad things that happen to inoccent people? Is that really the god you want to worship? If god is real and all you believers are right, well fuck it!!! I will go to HELL happy knowing I didnt worship such a shit ass god!

ynp1 wrote:so... a few of you believers say, " look around and see how beautiful the world is and all the great things that are going on around you", that is proof there is a god.

Well, I found out today that one of my friends died of cancer (hotchkin lymphome) at the age of 27. He was one of those people you meet and talk with for 10 minutes and feel like you have known the person for years. Always happy, full of life and always crackin' jokes. He was one of the nicest people I have ever met ( I am not just saying that because of what happened to him).

So my question is... When you praise and worship god for all the great things in the world... Do you also curse and blame god for all the bullshit that happens in this world? How about all the bad things that happen to inoccent people? Is that really the god you want to worship? If god is real and all you believers are right, well fuck it!!! I will go to HELL happy knowing I didnt worship such a shit ass god!

Jesus felt the need to smote your friend so it would make you stronger. He has to test us, or else life would be too easy and we'd all turn gay.

Shamis wrote:

ynp1 wrote: Is that really the god you want to worship? If god is real and all you believers are right, well fuck it!!! I will go to HELL happy knowing I didnt worship such a shit ass god!

Jesus felt the need to smote your friend so it would make you stronger. He has to test us, or else life would be too easy and we'd all turn gay.

And cancer was the door into heaven, so it is all good. Dogs and cats get cancer, but Christians are about 50:-50 on whether dogs or cats have souls and get into heaven.