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I don't really think so. I am really starting to believe that training power and power endurance, along with some cardio is the best thing for routes in the red, because there are nearly always some kind of rest every few bolts. Sure there might be exceptions, but I am not going to train endurance in a gym, just power and power endurance. You will develop any pure endurance you might need after a couple weeks of doing routes.

SikMonkey wrote:
Well, while local endurance and power endurance aren't mutually exclusive, they do need to be trained separately. You won't get up Tuna Town or Team Wilson just by bouldering unless you are a mutant anyway. Training PE will just make it easier to hold onto smaller holds for a longer period of time, but if you don't have some local endurance to back it up, you are not going to be able to recover.

Mj

I dunno man. I think that if you are stronger then the "hard" moves that normally deliver the pump just don't deliver the pump to the stronger person because they aren't pulling as hard to get through them.

Yeah, but there aren't any "hard" moves on routes like Tuna Town. Here is a test...go do Tuna Town....or Resurrection....or hell, you are definitely strong enough, there shouldn't be any hard moves for you on Team Wilson (assuming you have not been on these routes before). You have one shot. if what you are saying is true, you should be able to do those routes first go. I am not saying onsight them. You can have all the beta you want. But the reason I say you only have one go is because any more than that and you start to train local endurance (pure endurance). This is not a challenge or anything, only a test of a theory. There is a reason that the battle cry of many V10 boulderers during their first time to the Red is "It's not hard, it's just pumpy". Of course, there are the mutants who have such a high level of power endurance that a 70 foot route is nothing but an extended V1 to them.

Mj

I think the bouldererers just don't know how to rest, not that they couldn't do the routes. Look at it like this: You can train by running 1/4 mile up a steep hill, or you can train by jogging a flat mile. The first will help you with the second, but not the other way around. Endurance in the red is just being effecant. That is almost more of a learned skill, rather then something physical. Once you have power, you just need to learn to pace yourself, and to rest, and you can do endurance routes pretty quick.

yes to all the above....

although wes..I'd rather try to run a quarter uphill AFTER running a few of those flat miles for training.

once over heard.."training endurance is for those who will never have any power anyway" (that is why I am all about climbing laps.)

I don't think you can build a woody that is too overhanging, but that is just me. There is no faster way to build strength than climbing on steep terrain.

However, a less steep wall is needed so that you can use the other holds you bought that don't work on the steepness. Or build yourself some triangles.

If you do build some steepness, don't forget to allocate room for the swing out. I have made the mistake of building a wall that would work if you were a sallamader and could slither out, but is rather hard to climb on if you cut loose at all.

After a lot of thought and some trial and error, I believe it is safe enough to use 2x4s exclusively for the construction provided you use trusses, solid joints and construction and enough screws throughout. I would budget around $300-400 for supplies minus holds.

Your results may vary.
Greg

SikMonkey wrote:Yeah, but there aren't any "hard" moves on routes like Tuna Town. Here is a test...go do Tuna Town....or Resurrection....or hell, you are definitely strong enough, there shouldn't be any hard moves for you on Team Wilson (assuming you have not been on these routes before). You have one shot. if what you are saying is true, you should be able to do those routes first go. I am not saying onsight them. You can have all the beta you want. But the reason I say you only have one go is because any more than that and you start to train local endurance (pure endurance). This is not a challenge or anything, only a test of a theory. There is a reason that the battle cry of many V10 boulderers during their first time to the Red is "It's not hard, it's just pumpy". Of course, there are the mutants who have such a high level of power endurance that a 70 foot route is nothing but an extended V1 to them.

Mj

You're right about the lines on the Undertow. Now that I think about it I usually have to build up some endurance before taking on those lines after not climbing them for awhile. But, for example, the lines on the Stain wall don't pump me too much if I'm bouldering a lot because the moves don't take as much out of me.

You're right about the lines on the Undertow. Now that I think about it I usually have to build up some endurance before taking on those lines after not climbing them for awhile. But, for example, the lines on the Stain wall don't pump me too much if I'm bouldering a lot because the moves don't take as much out of me

Exactly. Because of your power, those lines (on the Stain wall) are nothing but extended boulder problems to you. Think of all the 13a climbers who can't send V3 or V4 and think of all the V10 boulderers who can't do 13a. They are just different styles of lines and that's why we differentiate between them by using terms like "enduro route" and "bouldery line".

Wes, I suggest you test your theory as outlined above. What are you bouldering V7, V8? There shouldn't be any hard moves on the UT Wall for you and there are PLENTY of huge rests.

Mj

a 13a climber who can't do V3-4????? come on..there is no such thing...

I can't climb 13a, and even I can do V3-4 first or second go.

V7? Ha, not even close, more like v5 on a good day. And I have yet to do any 5.12+ route, so doubt I would be able to tick one of the undertow ones first try. But, I will say that I have been mostly bouldering, and have gotten a bit stronger this winter. When I got on Table Friday, the bottom part that used to feel kinda pumpy, didn't feel bad at all. Because the moves all felt much easier and the holds "bigger", not because I have been hitting a treadwall or doing 4 X 4's or anything like that. For me, training for power makes more sense then training for endurance. Laps on bare metal teen are not going to get you up 8-ball, but time bouldering will.