RRC Archives

I'm not crazy about any kind of coalition. However, the RRGCC was begun as a grass-roots effort by volunteers. It doesn't have the resources, time, and structure, that the Access Fund has. So, give 'em a break and help out a little. I don't, buy you guys should.

I have a question, not for the RRGCC, but for all the people that complain about the coalition. How much time and money have you donated, how many trails have you built, how many crags have you developed, how many routes have you re-equiped? Also, is there some forum somewhere like this one that people complain and demand answers from the Access Fund, the Red Cross, the Nature Concervancy, the Sierra Club? Seriously, I never hear anyone complain or make demands of the Access Fund. Can anyone on this board tell me what they have done that remotely compares with the MP? No one can because the Access Fraud has actually done very little to guarantee access let alone purchase a piece of property as significant as the MP! But every time ole Kurt rolls around at Miguels' we all re-new or join! I mean, come on people, get real, wake up! So, what is the worse thing that the coalition has done?

It's true that a great deal of information is available to people who go out looking for it, but the issue is that the Coalition is actively trying to do things that aren't happening 'naturally'. The 'natural' thing is that climbing gets marginalized (a.k.a. banned) becuase it is seen as a foolhardy, wreckless thing to do by the general public and many land managers. Throw in the fact that we 'stain' and 'vandalize' the rock and that just seals the deal.

In order to achieve the goals of the Coalition it is necessary to modify people's behavior. The Forest Service would make its own life easier if it just banned all climbing, so we are working to prevent that. The Oil company obviously would like to just lock everyone else out of the area that they exploit. We aren't going to get the Forest Service to approve new routes by kidnapping anyones dog. We aren't going to be able to run the oil company off with guns and sticks. Communication is the only real technique that the Coalition has to modify behavior. That means influencing the FS process through active communication. It means presenting information to a judge to influence her decisions in our favor.

The Coalition needs to modify the behavior of a bunch of different groups of people. Basically none of these groups, even climbers, are going to act differently because there is a repository of information available on a website. To be effective, this has to be a 'public relations' process. All these groups, including climbers, need to be 'pursuaded' to do things - even when it is in their own best interest. In line with the original post of the thread, there is a need for PR work within the climbing community in order to get climbers to actually do the things that have to be done for the goals of the Coalition to happen: write letters, give money, etc.

It sounds like Vic's gym visits are a great step in the right direction.

Thrax wrote:I have a question, not for the RRGCC, but for all the people that complain about the coalition. How much time and money have you donated, how many trails have you built, how many crags have you developed, how many routes have you re-equiped? Also, is there some forum somewhere like this one that people complain and demand answers from the Access Fund, the Red Cross, the Nature Concervancy, the Sierra Club? Seriously, I never hear anyone complain or make demands of the Access Fund. Can anyone on this board tell me what they have done that remotely compares with the MP? No one can because the Access Fraud has actually done very little to guarantee access let alone purchase a piece of property as significant as the MP! But every time ole Kurt rolls around at Miguels' we all re-new or join! I mean, come on people, get real, wake up! So, what is the worse thing that the coalition has done?

Thrax, many people have legitimate concerns/complaints about the RRGCC. Even the inner circle of the RRGCC will acknowledge that there is justification for many if not all of the complaints lodged here. Someone from within the coalition itself posted this thread, asking for feedback - so chill out.

I know people, myself included, who have contributed money, time and honest hard work for the RRGCC who have legitimate criticism about the RRGCC. We all also see the great need for the work of RRGCC and only want to see them be even more successful by addressing these problems. Ever hear of constructive criticism??

My question remains, how many of the many people with legitimate concerns/complaints have actually done anything to help? I think each time someone with legitimate concerns/complaints voices their concerns/complaints they should tell us all what they have done to help. I truly beleive if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. If you haven't done anything to help you obviously are not concerned and you really souldn't be complaining.

why don't you list your contributions, Thrax, before you pick and choose who has the right to voice their concerns? If you donated only $10 for your membership, you are alloted only 10 consonants of feedback and 3 vowels. 25 for $25, etc. If you have helped with one trail day, you get an extra free vowel. If you donated or raised significant money for the Murray Purchase, you get 24 hours of non-stop bitching.

What you wrote sounds just as ridiculous. Re-read One-Fall's post. His object was to understand why people feel the way they do about the coalition, not to illegitimatize their opinions because they may not be active participants YET. The long-term goal of the RRGCC is obviously to bring more volunteers on board, not scare them away. Your attitude isn't helping.

Sandy, you are soo always right. What was I thinking? I am sorry. I hope I haven't hurt RRGCC volunteer recruitment with my attitude. You should really be in charge of the coalition. You are such a people person. A real uniter. Again, my apologies.

yeah, that's the effect I was going for.
/sarcasm

Dumbass.

Oh, and did I mention that you bring out the best in people?

and another thing, "Thrax" it is exactly attitudes like yours which have effected volunteers. People within the coalition are afraid to speak up about what is wrong. Many good people have left in frustration (and I'm not talking about myself). No organization should fear constructive criticism, especially not from within.

My posts in this thread were all intended to be viewed as exactly that, by the way, constructive criticism, in case that was not absolutely clear. I'm pretty sure that is what Lee was asking for.