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Funny thing is, everyone refused to even toprope the new route on Saturday for fear of certain humiliation... and I kept trying to trick other people into belaying

Also a cool note from the day, Etienne did his 2nd (3rd?) trad lead ever, laybacking his way up a near-onsight of Inhibitor... of course, his first real trad lead was Charlie, so... anyway, that thing is balls hard as a layback!!

So cool... So very, very cool.

http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... ute&id=515

proud achievement!!

does the fixed pin make this a mixed line? honest question.

No, it was placed on lead. "Mixed" is kind of a bastard misnomer and doesn't actually mean much outside the world of icy rock climbing with tools and crampons. If he had placed a fixed piece in that section on rappel, then perhaps you could call it a "mixed" line in that it would have rap-placed protection and "traditional" protection mixed together, but that terminology isn't widely used outside of modern predominantly sport areas like the Red. "Traditional" means only that all protection was placed ground-up on lead and does not specifically refer to the type of protection used... for instance, there are "traditional" multipitch routes in granite slab areas with lots of bolts, fixed pins, you name it. Pretty much every El Cap route is littered with fixed gear.

pigsteak wrote:does the fixed pin make this a mixed line? honest question.

Love that the Pigstagator has to call out when he is being honest now

thx dustin...that is what i thought.... do you have to place from a stance or is is considered kosher to hang from a hook to pound in bolts/pins and still call it free?

stance would be "better style," but since he was technically replacing the piton on an established aid route he did it on aid to get the pin in the best placement (ie. between the V9/10 cruxes). Bachar-Yerian was bolted in a similar style (hooking on crystals) and still considered a (very) bold traditional route.

dustonian wrote:No, it was placed on lead. "Mixed" is kind of a bastard misnomer and doesn't actually mean much outside the world of icy rock climbing with tools and crampons. If he had placed a fixed piece in that section on rappel, then perhaps you could call it a "mixed" line in that it would have rap-placed protection and "traditional" protection mixed together, but that terminology isn't widely used outside of modern predominantly sport areas like the Red. "Traditional" means only that all protection was placed ground-up on lead and does not specifically refer to the type of protection used... for instance, there are "traditional" multipitch routes in granite slab areas with lots of bolts, fixed pins, you name it. Pretty much every El Cap route is littered with fixed gear.

You are right about "Mixed" not being used at other areas....

You calling "Mixed" a bastard misnomer clues me in that you don't really approve. I kinda agree with you but the fact remains that it is a slightly more honest way of reporting the send. The route is diminished from a Trad point of view. A route was hammered on in 2012. Kinda strange if you ask me.

I feel the same way about the bolt on All that Glitters. I am not sure if it was bolted on lead or not. Could have been done either way. Maybe easier on lead. The point is, for all intents and purposes(All that Glitters) a trad route but at the Red it is reported as mixed.

I also understand that Andrew's route is at Sky Bridge so he is painted into a corner. No drills. Or is it no Power drills......Whatever maybe he never thought about bolts. I would love to hear his thinking on this one.

Nice send Andrew. Keep it up.

Andrew would probably never place a bolt...he mostly goes around chopping mine

I like "mixed" as a term reserved for gear protected routes with some fixed pro placed top-down. A ground-up-placed pin replaced on lead is still "traditional" protection, technically speaking. Andrew didn't even want to replace the pin, but I wasn't super motivated to belay him without it since he'd almost decked (& potentially fractured his ulna) the week before.