ReBolting the Mother Lode

[climb2core]

Between Ray and Blake we will get something better up soon... hopefully one of those computer geekwizards will be willing. In the meantime, I will post a caveman technology list up at the end of the day with routes, sponsors, and $. Be sure to specify if you are interested in adding permadraws to the bill or not.

Thanks!!

Cost on permas?

[Andrew]

Totally happy to help. I'll start w/ donating. I don't have any bolting skills to date, but I can use a drill and am willing to learn. I can also belay--assuming someone may need a belay to get up on a route?

Bolting surely isn't rocket science, but there is a learning curve. If you want I can show you the ropes(pun intended).

It might be good for the people bolting to know the route decently well, so that they don't put the bolt(subsequent draw location) in a bad spot. I realize the new bolts will go very close to the originals, but sometimes a few inches can make a difference. Just some food for thought, so... if anyone knows of any bolts that need specific locations on any routes at the Lode, speak up.

[dustonian]

Totally happy to help. I'll start w/ donating. I don't have any bolting skills to date, but I can use a drill and am willing to learn. I can also belay--assuming someone may need a belay to get up on a route?

Bolting surely isn't rocket science, but there is a learning curve. If you want I can show you the ropes(pun intended).

It might be good for the people bolting to know the route decently well, so that they don't put the bolt(subsequent draw location) in a bad spot. I realize the new bolts will go very close to the originals, but sometimes a few inches can make a difference. Just some food for thought, so... if anyone knows of any bolts that need specific locations on any routes at the Lode, speak up.

Agreed, and there will be a concerted effort for folks to rebolt the routes they are most familiar with (which will become more of an issue on the harder stuff!) to keep things as safe and flow-y as possible. As an example, the third bolt (above the little pinchy sloper crux) on KMITJ is close to groundfall potential if you fall while clipping. Therefore the new SSGI should go a bit below, rather than above, the existing 5-piece. Anyway, that's just an example... Also, it will be better at first to stick with equippers who are familiar and experienced with glue-in bolting techniques, as it is very easy to make a humongous mess on the wall and the ground with epoxy when you are first learning how to place glue-ins, and we definitely don't want that happening at the Lode.

Thanks for the donation steep4me! What is your first name if you don't mind me asking so I can keep track?

Finally if you do give money via PayPal today be sure to click "Add special instructions to the seller" button before checking out and write "Motherlode Fund" or even the route you choose to sponsor there to make sure it goes to the right place.

Thanks everyone!

[steep4me]

My first name is Virginia. I used the special instructions button to designate ML Bolting Fund.

[dustonian]

Cost on permas?

Roughly $10/pop assuming we can get the deal Michelle and Dario had going last year... practically speaking though, budgeting priority will be given to bolts and glue first and fixed draws second. Of course, all draws will be inspected regardless, and those that are heinously sharp on the rope end, disfigured on the hanger end, or excessively sunbleached/tatty on the dogbone will be removed & replaced with a migrating herd of chaindraws from an undisclosed habitat.

[caribe]

In the interest of community spirit we have asked Blake and Team Suck to create a Paypal button on TeamSuck.com and we are soliciting donations

Please start a new thread on the Front Page when this is in place.

[dustonian]

Yes, & should add that it's http://www.teamsuckclimbing.com, not just "teamsuck"... the latter will take you to a different site that you may not (or may) wish to visit.

[THB]

not to be a downer... but i think we should put more serious consideration into equipping every route at the lode with perma-draws. i certainly think the routes in the madness cave deserve to have perma-draws on them... but routes like skinboat, ale-8-one, chainsaw, kmitj, stain, buff the wood, etc... could easily go without perma-draws. haven't we learned already that equipping routes with perma-draws just increases traffic, and frequently that traffic comes from people that shouldn't be on the route in the first place, they are getting in over their head, but they think it's no big deal because there is no commitment level because they can bail at any time.

one or two perma-draws would be nice for cleaing purposes... but i think that should cut it... this past weekend i was at the lode, and some girl walked up to the undertow wall (i'm guessing her first time at the lode...) and she was like, "okay which one is chainsaw, let me at it... i mean i'm probably going to hang all over it..." and she did, she hung at the 2nd bolt and couldn't even pull the crux moves at around the 5th bolt... come on, she had no reason to be on that route... she was just adding chalk and shoe rubber to the route... go look at tissue tiger for example, i was on that recently, and there is shoe rubber and chalk all over it! there is a slopey rail that some people use for a foot at the start of the crux, and it's so polished and full of shoe rubber that most of the time your foot just pops right off! i ended up doing it without using that foot...

just some food for thought... regardless, i'll make my monetary contribution before the end of the day.

[dustonian]

Philosophically true perhaps, but the issue is that "permanent" draws showed up on the Lode, as they do at most steeper harder sport crags, without foresight or intention. Now we can take them all down again, but draws will inevitably appear again and be left behind over time, just like they were last time (and the time before that). The issue with this is that these are primarily aluminum draws being left behind, which do not stand up to the abuse of day-in and day-out dogging and whipping of the type you mentioned, especially with sandy ropes. So the choice is, continue the cycle of obsolescence by removing bad aluminum draws and allowing new aluminum draws to appear, and then become bad again? Or admit to ourselves that this has become a part of the sport, for better or worse, and equip the routes properly with safe gear? It is really a matter of being honest with ourselves and looking at the history of the sport to make a pragmatic decision in the interest of safety... whether or not you have some so-called "ethical" or "ecological" beef with the draws being there (and if it's in the interest of the environment might I suggest aligning yourself to a more meaningful and far-reaching cause such as industrial waste disposal or off-shore oil drilling, etc).

All that said, this is not about fixed draws. Forget the permadraw idea if people are going to get their panties bunched up (again). This is about safe and sustainable bolting. If there are dangerous fixed draws they will be removed. End of story.

[Andrew]

Do you really think that people will stop putting project draws on routes at the Lode? Chainsaw had project draws on it for years before it got the perma-draws. I already think it has been concluded that we aren't going to stop people from putting on project draws, so we might as well make sure it is done with the highest quality equipment. Unfortunately, that girl was going to dog up Chainsaw no matter if it had perma-draws or not.