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I am with you Green3. Sooner or later someone is going call bullshit on Shanghai and Mama Benson. I can't think of another situation at the Red where two routes are so close together in proximity, style, angle and difficulty then inexplicably graded so different.

Mamma Benson is a cakewalk compared to BMT pump wise. Why can I get to the top of Chainsaw and Mama Benson w/ no takes, but not past the 5th bolt on BMT? The thing is so pumpy! My hands are already opening by the 5 th or 6th bolt. Going to try and rest with my leg on the ledge at the 4th bolt next time.

Now that I sent BMT, I can confirm it is quite soft for the grade.

JR wrote:I am with you Green3. Sooner or later someone is going call bullshit on Shanghai and Mama Benson. I can't think of another situation at the Red where two routes are so close together in proximity, style, angle and difficulty then inexplicably graded so different.

Agreed. Quite a difference between Mind Meld and Shanghai, which are graded the same.

hmm.., i've sucked at Torrent. i've also sucked at bmarley, left flank, military, roadside,.. though i sucked a lot harder 10 years ago. BMT is a hard 12a, at least i one hung gung ho, too many pups, sex farm, infections, stay the hand, pine (sent wild yet tasty) and chainsaw/ale 8 while still just working BMT..

I haven't sent BMT yet, just tried it one day last year with one hang. But I didn't think it was any harder than 12a. I actually felt that I have been on multiple 5.12a's here at the Red that felt harder to me than BMT.

This is a kind of a dumb conversation and I think Lena is alluding to the actual issue. So much of climbing, especially sport climbing, is dependent on what you are good at, and what you are good at is often dependent on genetics(body size and type), and training(what you do most of).

I have always been bad at endurance climbing, mediocre at power endurance, and decent at cruxy with rests climbing and ok at slighly steeper than vert climbing.
This is because I am really tall, have big hands, and I train most bouldering. For me, steel worker felt about the same.

Grades at the red are all over the place but I think that mostly has to do with the significant amount of styles available, and idiot developers. Just go out and try your hardest on as many different climbs as you can.

A lot of sport routes at the Red have one distinctive jug for de-pumping. Some call it a rest, others call it the crux. For bare metal teen, it's the crux.

That big slopey rest jug is the only hold I can remember about that route. For steelworker, all I can remember are those sideways pockets.

lena_chita wrote:I haven't sent BMT yet, just tried it one day last year with one hang. But I didn't think it was any harder than 12a. I actually felt that I have been on multiple 5.12a's here at the Red that felt harder to me than BMT.

I used to have this opinion about BMT as well. People who had sent it would then reply, "have you sent it?" I would say, "No, but it doesn't seem that hard with one hang." I didn't understand their irritation until now. No...the moves are all 11a to 11b, but the pump makes the climb really difficult--12a++

steep4me wrote:
I used to have this opinion about BMT as well. People who had sent it would then reply, "have you sent it?" I would say, "No, but it doesn't seem that hard with one hang." I didn't understand their irritation until now. No...the moves are all 11a to 11b, but the pump makes the climb really difficult--12a++

Yeah, I don't think it has a single move harder than "27 Years of Climbing," but cumulatively it's up there with "Lucifer."