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it takes me MAYBE a second or two longer than it does to hang a draw and clip it.

Give me the benefit of the doubt here and say it does take 2 seconds longer to insert a cam as opposed to clipping a bolt.

2 seconds x 10 gear placements (give or take a couple) = 20 seconds longer that your muscles are contracted on a route. Considering the route may take 5 minutes this is harder because your muscles are becoming fatigued even if using relaxed placements.

Dont believe me? Do as many pushups as you can, don't forget to keep count. Wait 5 minutes and try again this time stop 1/2 way on the way up and count one thousand one, one thousand two before finishing the rep and continue. Be sure to pause 2 seconds in the middle of every rep to mimic the additional time needed to place gear. How many did you get? Probably less.

The fact that your muscles have to contract for a longer period of time makes it an itsy bitsy, tiny, miniscule amount harder. Saying "if anything it's easier" is just plain ridiculous.

_Rasputin wrote:

it takes me MAYBE a second or two longer than it does to hang a draw and clip it.

Give me the benefit of the doubt here and say it does take 2 seconds longer to insert a cam as opposed to clipping a bolt.

2 seconds x 10 gear placements (give or take a couple) = 20 seconds longer that your muscles are contracted on a route. Considering the route may take 5 minutes this is harder because your muscles are becoming fatigued even if using relaxed placements.

Dont believe me? Do as many pushups as you can, don't forget to keep count. Wait 5 minutes and try again this time stop 1/2 way on the way up and count one thousand one, one thousand two before finishing the rep and continue. Be sure to pause 2 seconds in the middle of every rep to mimic the additional time needed to place gear. How many did you get? Probably less.

The fact that your muscles have to contract for a longer period of time makes it an itsy bitsy, tiny, miniscule amount harder. Saying "if anything it's easier" is just plain ridiculous.

Most gear placements on trad routes 5.10 and below are from no hands stances or jams equivalent to Jugs. Places where I would stay to shake out if needed.... so no, it doesn't make it any harder. Its a REST position.

Isn't it kind of like skiing and snowboarding? They're both essentially the same thing, i.e., going downhill on a waxed piece of fiberglass, but require slightly different skillsets. I may be proficient at skiing but suck at snowboarding. Not because one's harder than the other, but because it requires some adjustment in technique.

Barnacle Ben wrote:Isn't it kind of like skiing and snowboarding? They're both essentially the same thing, i.e., going downhill on a waxed piece of fiberglass, but require slightly different skillsets. I may be proficient at skiing but suck at snowboarding. Not because one's harder than the other, but because it requires some adjustment in technique.

OW, I finally think we have someone who might "get it"?

END THREAD

but seriously 5.7 trad is tough

Yes, I could certainly climb the hardest sport route I've done on trad gear

so I repeat, trad is no more difficult than sport.

We all love hearing what a great climber you are but you’re issuing a blanket statement to an entire climbing community with a diverse set of skills and strengths. If trad isn’t harder for you, then it isn’t harder, FOR YOU.

You may as well be telling short people that reachy routes are not really any more difficult you just suck at it or aren’t trying hard enough. The same for a heavy person on overhanging routes, an inflexible person on high-stepping slabs, or a person with fat fingers on a thin crack.

If a climbing style is more difficult for someone then it is FOR THEM because it doesn’t play to their strengths.

I'm amazed at the number of people in the poll that think toproping is a little more diffiuclt than climbing bolts. But they are right, if it's harder for them then it's harder FOR THEM.

C'mon y'all- gear is for scared wankers. real men climb with only knots for pro. And you can stuff a knot in a wee little seam like five times as fast as clipping a bolt. Ever'body knows sport climbing is the hardest thing imaginable- ever. Hands down. So sportos- give yourselves a big pat on the back for having such an impressive skillset. Traddies- just give it up, hit the snooze button one more time, and consider skipping the Red for bingo night in Winchester.

Dang, I thought Anticlimber's comment about greased holes had this thing headed for the dumper.

bingo night in chesta vegas is harder than sport OR trad.

whats hardest about it all is realizing that its all an individual journey/game/sport/way to meet chicks/fag adventure/whatever and that we need to realize that. its fine to talk mad shit behind a back (or computer screen) and crack jokes at one another(thats why i really like this game) but please, please dont for a minute take yourself seriously. otherwise you are going to hate it when my mongoloid, shit stained brother drags his lopsided helmeted head up your "sick proj!"