I don't know what it's called any more......

[gunslnga]

eat my privilege

For someone who has a halfway intelligent signature, you disapoint me with your adolesent, yet predictable, abuse of your right to free speech.
I hope all of your future attempts at dialogue are of the same caliber as your eloquently worded statement above, really, bravo!!!!

[Crankmas]

uh, where's the BURN ointment

[kneebar]

Gunslnga wrote,
"As far as the Native Americans wanting one month out of a year, it may not be they're right, but it sure the f$%^ should be they're privilege."

You are right it is there privilege to pray in there own way, I respect that as well as any religion or the choice not to believe in any god or worship inanimate objects. They have the right imposed by the big bad white guys. I also have the privilege and right to climb the tower any month of the year. I won't tear down the prayer bundles and ribbons out of that mutual respect.

"Don't you think they earned it???"

Yes, see above.

" I don't under stand, all the liberals on here would usually be going nuts about this injustice... Wait, that's right, this Ceremony interferes with they're personal agendas, so f&^% the Native Americans, Let's all go climbing and talk about saving the whales while we piss on sacred ceremonies."

It is nice to see you have the knowledge to cast all liberals in the same light! Personal agenda! I'm more then willing to share the tower with the tribes.

Chill
Lastly, don't you think it is a bit harsh to spew obscenities in this particular forum.........or do you believe it is your right!

Take care,
Ken

[rhunt]

Can a mod help me out here? Is it our "free speech right" or a privilege to post on this wed page?

[Paul3eb]

Alright Paul if your serious, or if this is bait, either way, I'll give you my perspective on the contents of my statement....

It's your right to own a car
it's a privilege to have a license

when you turn 21 it's your right to drink
it's your privilege to do it in a bar/club/restaurant

it's your right to climb on your property
it's a privilege to climb invited on private property

i was entirely serious.. and you still haven't explained anything. you've only given me case points of things you consider to show a difference.

it does start to sound like you're getting closer to saying that anything explicitly stated (or very obviously implied) by the consititution and subsequent legislation is a right and the rest is priviledge. is that where you're going?

for me, personally, i lean very heavily against the idea of "rights", of personal entitlement based on.. hell, i don't even know what people base it on. for me, just about everything is a priviledge. living, today, here, is a priviledge. climbing period is a privilidge. owning property is a priviledge. the rest is just plain respect. the world isn't black and white enough to lay down a difference and keep it separate.

you're lucky as hell to be here. even lucky to have the priviledge to discuss rights and priviledges. how about instead of the "this is mine, that is yours" mentality we start saying, "i respect you. please respect me, too."

[rhunt]

well said Paul

[pigsteak]

nice sentiments mr. paul. however, we both know that history has shown us over the last 10,000 years that even these best of intentions have never worked out.

countries invade and people kill. i wish it weren't so, but I am afraid that it is better to realize this, and heed it as we go forward. owning property in America is a classic example of mine/yours mentality. I buy it, you better not trespass.

"i respect you. you respect me"....how would you handle this as it regards Devils tower AKA bear Lodge (the proper native American name)? who gets utmost respect in June? June was an arbitrary month picked out.

[Wes]

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!!!

Can a mod help me out here? Is it our "free speech right" or a privilege to post on this wed page?

[Meadows]

for me, personally, i lean very heavily against the idea of "rights", of personal entitlement based on.. hell, i don't even know what people base it on. for me, just about everything is a priviledge. living, today, here, is a priviledge. climbing period is a privilidge. owning property is a priviledge. the rest is just plain respect. the world isn't black and white enough to lay down a difference and keep it separate.

you're lucky as hell to be here. even lucky to have the priviledge to discuss rights and priviledges. how about instead of the "this is mine, that is yours" mentality we start saying, "i respect you. please respect me, too."

Maybe in the grand scheme of things, you should feel lucky, but unfortunately people violate "respect" and so with that, there has to be a clear distinction of priviledge and rights. I guess that is where law comes in as well as social norms, and what those definitions are depends greatly on the society and culture.

Even if you're lucky to be here, it is your right to continue being here. Otherwise, we would never argue whether capital punishment is the ultimate price to pay for someone who stripped others of this right.

[Cliff Heindel]

gunsinga-thank you for attempting to elevate the discussion. i regret the
'eat my privilege' comment; i didn't realize how seriously people wanted
this discussion to be. so.., if you would continue to offer your knowledge,
i'd like to learn and grow from it.

As to the right/privilege distinction, two questions:
-is gay marriage a right or privilege?
-is abortion a right or privilege?
And, if Jesus has nothing to do with it, can you please tell President Bush?

And, as this concept of 'abuse' of the First Amendment goes..what is it? how do you recognize/describe it? When Vice President Dick Cheney told Senator P{atrick Leahy on the floor of the senate to 'go Fuck yourself,' was this abuse of the first amendment? When An Coulter calls the entire Democratic Party 'traitors' (admittedly, i'm sketchy on the facts of this) or 'treason'--is this abuse of the first amendment?

Thanks again for your enlightened and mature leadership.