I don't know what it's called any more......

Post by **local** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:41 am

I'm going to make an observation about climbing at the Red this year. As the season has progressed, people have become more relaxed and at home, and things have changed. I have noticed that the word ETHICS has seemed to disappear from certain person's vocabulary. People are getting on red-tagged routes and not giving a fuck about it. I walk up to cliffs and find wrappers, tape, and other trash that has been left behind. Chalk grafitti and wall art is still considered "leaving a trace." People are being rude and selfish at the climbing walls and at Miguels. What does this say about climbers? I don't have the answer....but I think I have an idea. They have no respect for the area or anyone else who does. Maybe the people that have been around for a while should start correcting the new school and standing up for the things that make climbing what it is. I think a lot of these gym kids are uninformed and don't really realize the importance of ethics or respect. I have been around climbing my entire life and the changes have been always positive. I think this change might be leaning to the not-so-positive future. Red Tags don't take a lot to figure out.....If its got a red tag, don't fucking climb it. You didn't put the time, money, or commitment into it. Hell, I'm only 22 and ethics seem easy to respect and understand to me. I hope that people read this and understand where I'm coming from. If you don't, maybe you should teach yourself something about the ethics involved in climbing.

Post by **anticlmber** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:08 am

hell yeah D. you know i'm with you. everyone....EVERYONE needs to take a stand when they see something that is not right. Something that threatens ALL CLIMBERS' ACCESS. Ethics is not a place where a british guy with a lisp lives, it is what makes climbs of the past and climbs of the future last. If you see trash, even if it's not your own, PICK IT UP. It's your crag/home is it not? Take care of it if others cannot seem to. Speak up! Don't be afraid to be a dick. you are being less of one then the Richardsucker with the obscene dog, throwing his/her garbage everywhere, and drawing on the rock. By not doing something about it your a BIGGER Cock. Respect each other, educate each other, look out for oneanother, and be an example to those you see. Do we need another Torrent, Military, Hueco, or countless other places that have been lost or come damn close to being lost? Step up bitches. do your part. For those of you that do, and i know who you are, keep it up! You make me proud. I miss you all and i want to come back to the greatest place there is. Not the greatest that was.

Post by **Crankmas** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:33 pm

well put both of you, I will rededicate cause I have noticed the proliferation of trash, cig butts etc and have grown callous towards doing the right thing about it- pack it out

Post by **rjackson** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:49 pm

Ethics, common sense, respect. Call it what you will; it's a good thing, that often must be taught.

But I take offense at the implication that it is the gym that is causing this disregard of privilege. Those I know from the gym are just as aware and even more appreciative of the outdoor experience as those 'seasoned spewers' that always 'assume' that anyone disrespectful of the crag is just some gym-rat.

Sometimes you need to clean up your own backyard before you start yelling at the neighbors.

Post by **Meadows** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:00 pm

defender, And how many do you know from the gym? Your handful of climbing buddies may not represent the overall picture.

What local is saying is that those with knowledge should teach. I used to hike outside of trail boundaries until somewhat taught me the impact it has. It's that simple.

Post by **dmw** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:17 pm

I know for a fact that the people that work and live in the Gorge are very cognizant of their environment. Every time I go climbing with the "locals" we end up picking up garbage that has been left at the crag. I don't think pointing fingers is necessary, but I do think that everyone should take what Local said as a reminder to exercise some responsibility while climbing, whether it is picking up your trash, respecting other people, and respecting the land. Those of you that have been around for a long time, in my opinion, do have a lot of knowledge that us newbies could stand to learn, and therefore, have the right to say something to someone if they are doing something unsafe, unethical, or whatever. Speak up, don't assume everyone knows what they are doing...

Post by **ReachHigh** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:27 pm

There is no reason for trash at the crag. before you leave make a pass to make sure no wrappers, cans, gear were left behind. Well you can leave all the gear you want

Post by **charlie** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:39 pm

Just for a little clarification.....

A redtagged route is off limits. Period.

Trash is trash and climbers are better than common litterbugs (this includes butts, orange peels, bananna peels, tape fragments, and anything that wasn't there before you got there) Pick up more than you leave, don't bring down the average.

Bury your shit, and if possible your dogs' shit as well. At a minimum get it off the trail and out of eyesight.

Pads, carpets, chairs, and all the other crap you expect to leave at the crag for tomorrow is trash. You suck for leaving it there.

One more time, a tagged route is off limits. If you didn't scope it, clean it, or bolt it, and don't have permission from the person that did then you are a common thief.

Tip your servers and your bartenders.

Post by **captain static** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:40 pm

This is truly sad to hear. I thought some real progress had been made when we confronted the potential Torrent Falls closure. If I may ask, when you say certain persons, are these people "regulars" or not? Not that it makes a difference. Please don't be shy about approaching someone you see doing something that could jeopardize access to ask that they do the right thing.

Post by **rjackson** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:47 pm

Meadows, I think you missed my point. I am also saying that it is not one group that is irresponsible, and that it is the responsibilty of all groups to educate.

My 'handful' of gym buddies is no less than 30 individuals ranging in age from 18-55, probably 60-40 M/F; students, engineers, designers, doctors, plumbers, teachers. Experienced from 1 year of climbing to over 25 years of climbing. Primarily from Louisville, but I also have acquaintences in Ohio and Indiana. I'm 45 and have been climbing going on 6 years (I still consider myself a newbie) and would not be able to if it wasn't for the gym. But I have been active outdoors for way longer than some on this forum have been breathing.

Not trying (or wanting) to piss anybody off, but it seems that the first scapegoat that those lacking knowledge point to for inappropriate outdoor behaviour is the gym clan. Probably read it in a Rock & Ice editorial, "gym-bashing is in if you are a true outdoor climber." Just because someone picks up some trash at a crag does not give them license to generalize. I think a big part of the education should be a respect for others, and their differences, as well as the crag.