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You mean that Tom has more knowledge than you? You don't have to follow a religion to be a "nut job".

lmao...rhunt, that is group think ....are you tomdarch's fanatical follower now?

I KNEW a few words on the middle east could get us an eulogy on middle east politics....

funny tomdarch, but you say that most americans want a "moderate" who doesn't espouse his religous views, but last time I checked over half of the US voted for a man who openly espoused his views. Guess our country is full of nut jobs. Damn, I hate democracy.

BTW, is Liebermann a nut job in your opinion?

im not sure you have tomdarch's words correctly pig, but i do think we should follow up on meadows take on nut jobs

cliff,

you are right..I misquoted Tom. sorry tom.

Americans want pseudo religous people, Those who can talk a religous streak, but not actually practice their faith. Any time someone gets beyond the surface of spiritual things, most people get very uncomfortable. Yes, I am talking about muslim and christian faith alike. We all want someone who thinks like we do.

What is "group think? I've never met Tom but I am sure he's a nice guy and someone who know lots about p.oltics.

why were you fishing for a euolgy?

Piggie you make a good point about how this country has voted. Yet you(like all republicans) are still in massive denial about the fraud of the last two major elections. This Novemeber(if the democratic voting system works) will be very telling. Personally, I plan to take a vacation day on that Tuesday and work the polls. I am looking into getting the training.

You hate democracy and so does Bush and all of the GOP that's why they stole the votes and the elections.

true...stealing is much more fun than winning outright.

democracy is for whiners like the libs...

and middle eastern countries. at least that's what we've been told.

captain static wrote:Legal and political technicalities aside, I think the Tower situation points to the lack of respect some climbers have for the interests of others. Looked at as a user conflict, the NPS has worked out the voluntary closure as a compromise. Why is that so hard to respect? A red tag on a route and the effort someone has put into a new route. Why is that so hard to respect? To me it seems that some climbers think they have an unalienable right to climb whatever they want, whenever they want, regardless of the impact it might have on others.

I can't compare the Devils Tower BS to climbers with respect. I haven't climbed at the Tower (in June) since the "voluntary" closure took affect but I am very tempted. I truly believe this is a classic case of bringing religion into politics.

In June of 95 the NPS originally tried to block guide services from using the tower by not giving out permits in effect "banning" commercial climbing. You can read all about it at this link http://www.bc.edu/schools/law/lawreview ... 04_TXT.htm

Paul3eb wrote:

gunslnga wrote:I think people cannot discern a privilege from a right and thus do not act accordingly, but what do you do????

admittedly, i can't discern the two. would you please explain the difference for me?

Alright Paul if your serious, or if this is bait, either way, I'll give you my perspective on the contents of my statement....

It's your right to own a car
it's a privilege to have a license

when you turn 21 it's your right to drink
it's your privilege to do it in a bar/club/restaurant

it's your right to climb on your property
it's a privilege to climb invited on private property

and if said private property has a red tagged line, you have the privilege of obeying/accepting the wishes of the land owner, And it's the right of the land owner to kick your ass off his property if you abuse your privilege...

As far as the Native Americans wanting one month out of a year, it may not be they're right, but it sure the fuck should be they're privilege. Don't you think they earned it??? I don't under stand, all the liberals on here would usually be going nuts about this injustice... Wait, that's right, this Ceremony interferes with they're personal agendas, so fuck the Native Americans, Let's all go climbing and talk about saving the whales while we piss on sacred ceremonies.

And Cliff, it has nothing to do with Jesus, so quit abusing your privilege to post non-sense on here.....

eat my privilege