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Sure, it would be nice when you see some behavior that doesn't seem right to have the quick wits to make your point in a roundabout, humorous, non-offensive way. But most of us aren't that clever.

So you either have to come across dickish or regret letting it go without saying anything. It's kinda lose-lose.

But hey, if someone calls you out, if you can get over your bruised feelings, you might want to think about maybe they had a point, even if they didn't say it in the most tactful way.

Lander wrote: Sure, it would be nice when you see some behavior that doesn't seem right to have the quick wits to make your point in a roundabout, humorous, non-offensive way. But most of us aren't that clever.

Sometimes people need to say it how it is. Why not be direct and to the point?

Lander wrote:
But hey, if someone calls you out, if you can get over your bruised feelings, you might want to think about maybe they had a point, even if they didn't say it in the most tactful way.

Very tactfully put.

some people are more direct than others, in the Marine Corps I think people are taught to say what they mean and mean what they say, in other endeavors people are taught to work the system and maybe they'll get to be dean

i would pretty much pansy out and take the nice approach of trying to be "tactful" and pretend to assume that the involved party didn't know their mistake. let me clarify the "pansy" part though.

however, if i had guns like chriss i would just go ahead and be a jerk knowing that i could back it up! other than that i would call on the snake charmer to command an attack!

sometimes empathy with apathy will get you there fo sure

Seriously though - does the singular act of driving up one of thsoe hills jeopardize access? I'm genuinely asking because I don't know..

Sometimes we've considered driving up there, like to Drive By or Bob Marley, and dropping packs, and then parking in the lot. Sure the hke up the hill isn't bad, but it's that much easier without a pack.

Wouldn't park up there, and wouldn't want to f'up the climber/everybody else relationship.

chriss wrote:

Jeff wrote:
In hindsight, not the most responsible thing to do.
In over 10 years of climbing though, I've never run into another climber as aggressive and confrontational as you were.

Maybe if more people were like this, torrent would still be open, and dogs would still be allowed at Muir valley.


Jeff, if you knew you were doing something wrong, why get upset when you are called out on it?

Who says I got upset?
It's a bit intimidating when someones is yelling at you with a crazed look in their eyes and spit flying from their mouth.

der uber wrote:Seriously though - does the singular act of driving up one of thsoe hills jeopardize access? I'm genuinely asking because I don't know..

Sometimes we've considered driving up there, like to Drive By or Bob Marley, and dropping packs, and then parking in the lot. Sure the hke up the hill isn't bad, but it's that much easier without a pack.

Wouldn't park up there, and wouldn't want to f'up the climber/everybody else relationship.

i vote no. because no matter what the true intention is, harmless/harmful, the oil boys just see an unauthorized vehicle where it is not supposed to be. the moose at the bottom of the hill should have told you.
besides we are rock climbing, carrying your pack to drive-by for goodness sake, shouldn't strain your sack that much. if it does you may want to stick to friction slab.

I don't think it's a matter of opinion. The road is posted. Don't drive up it.

anticlmber wrote:

der uber wrote:Seriously though - does the singular act of driving up one of thsoe hills jeopardize access? I'm genuinely asking because I don't know..

Sometimes we've considered driving up there, like to Drive By or Bob Marley, and dropping packs, and then parking in the lot. Sure the hke up the hill isn't bad, but it's that much easier without a pack.

Wouldn't park up there, and wouldn't want to f'up the climber/everybody else relationship.

i vote no. because no matter what the true intention is, harmless/harmful, the oil boys just see an unauthorized vehicle where it is not supposed to be. the moose at the bottom of the hill should have told you.
besides we are rock climbing, carrying your pack to drive-by for goodness sake, shouldn't strain your sack that much. if it does you may want to stick to friction slab.

Cool enough, won't be me driving up the road, and I'll be extra dickish to those who do. BTW, have you ever climbed with a strained sack? Probably not fun, on friction slab or overhang.