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You have to remember you are viewing it from your perspective.
You value W* because he has done good things for this website. I agree, from that perspective he is a great asset.
What has he done for climbing in the red? as a whole?

It takes a very strong person to put themselves out there in front of all your scrutiny to do something for everyone (not just the hundred or so logging on to the web every day).

I am not so simpathetic as you make me sound. S* is a very strong, aggressive person, but she also knows what she wants and fights for it. Think about the politicians that raise your expectations. They are not always doing what "you" want, but as a whole they are achieving the goal.
Everyone's intentions have been misinterpreted, just think of that when you think of a person that's name is all over the websites, all over the rrgcc ads, and not so purposefully in the magazines.

Why do you think Porter makes himself inaccessbile? He does not want to be bashed on a daily basis for what he's done. We all learn, we all grow up, we all make mistakes.

The real growth is still going on, fighting for what you believe in.

So tell me, what have YOU done for climbing in the Red? In no way am I am implying that you've done nothing, but I am curious about your credentials and who you are.

We value Wes because we know him as a good, trustworthy person.

I thought Jimmy dean was dead. Who thought he would be raised back to life to the misfortune of all...

jimmydean wrote:What has he [Wes] done for climbing in the red? as a whole?

Wes has done a ton. He's raised a lot of money: http://www.redriverclimbing.com/viewtopic.php?t=1483 <== this just being one example. He has been part of the RRGCC for years, has preached their good and explained their bad, he made their most recent attempt at a forum the best it's ever been, and he's instilled in many people, including myself, the hope that our local climbing organization will one day be something we're all proud of. Hell, one year the RRGCC even awarded him something...I forget what. You think someone who doesn't do anything receives awards?

From my experience, whatever anyone gives is just never enough. Even people who do good for the Coalition can be ostracized. I'll still support them because them is us. The RRGCC isn't SSS, Tim, Ryan, Dr. Bob....it's you, me, and all of us. The support I will give, however, can range from financial to huge amounts of time. And that amount will depend on how welcome I feel. At this point, I'm keeping my distance because most folks I know end up getting emotionally frustrated or accused of not doing enough when they're doing all they can.

I haven't posted on here in awhile and I don't know who you are but you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Aside from what Wes has done with RRGCC he has done wonders for the climbing community by spreading goodwill, being an amazing cheer leader, and being a patient and effective teacher for more people than I can count. When I read your post saying that he is intimidated by a woman I laughed out loud. Wes is supportive, giving, etc. etc. You suck JD! You rock Wes!

Jimmydean comes from a long line of busheaters. That's the problem. Zee bush will make you CRAZY!

Artsay, I applaud you for saying that you cannot really make any assumptions about a person because they have not done anything bad to you.

The internet has given a path to the termites that grab on to garbage and carry it on and on. I'm not claiming that W* is an inherently bad person, he has just portrayed himself badly on a very public forum.

You, however have ingratiated yourself by reading and writing things with an understanding that not all words and/or especially written words should be taken so literally that we should not talk about them in a logical manner.

If we all reference what was said on the old bbs, we would not be so generous to your man R* or the other man K*.

They have changed. It is a good thing.
We all make progressions in our thinking and I think that the couple that you and R* make is an amazing progression from where he and you have been.
We all make each other better.

All of us should just be careful what we say in these documented times (aka the internet chat rooms) because there are so many people that will eventually view it.

My kudos to all those who restrain themselves from writing all that spews from their brains, and then edit to say what they really mean.
Artsay, I give you many props for helping make my view of R*, a person that I immulate as a climber. All the rest would be seen as cowtowing on this site, but I know partially what you have put in to your relationship and it has been worth it.

Quote: "They are two of the most anti-social, elitist climbers I have ever met. I truelly believe that they would rather have the preserve totally to themselves - I mean, Shannon has actually asked people to leave a crag on the murry property before. "

You are such a Whiner....I'm sitting here LMAO because you are whining and people actually think that you are a climber. G* doesn't pretentd to climb. S* climbs harder than you ever will.

You are wannabe, and you masquerade as a "nice" effeminate male who wants to climb just to have fun. Have you ever committed to a goal and kept it?

jimmydean, Thank you for giving me a good laugh, and for proving many peoples point for them. Good stuff, indead.

BTW, who are you? I mean, as fucked up as I am, I have never hidden what I thought behind a screen name that wasn't the same as my real name. And, I am always willing to meet in real life with anyone that has issues with anything I say. Sad thing is most people will never do that.

Wes

Years ago Jimmy Dean had a varity show on TV. He makes sausage now.