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Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:48 am
by anticlmber
the biggest trash at the crag are the people. we should all walk into the woods, dig a hole, light ourselves on fire, and shoot ourselves before going out. the coyotes can chew on our remains and shit us out in a beautiful, earth friendly, passing, that will please everyone. you go first.
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:34 am
by captain static
A friend of mine (who BTW is a climber) showed me an article in the National Parks Conservation Assoc. magazine about climbing impacts. The article was mainly positive about climbers & land managers working together in J-Tree & the Valley. However, some info about the voluntary one month closure at the Tower was telling. While 3/4 of the climbers are honoring this closure, 1/4 aren't. The response of the Tribes was, "We give them 11 months out of the year to climb, why can't climbers give us one month for us to hold our ceremonies ..."
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:44 am
by Paul3eb
conditions, dude, conditions.. friction is sick when they summon the gods!
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:01 pm
by ReachHigh
anticlmber wrote:the biggest trash at the crag are the people. we should all walk into the woods, dig a hole, light ourselves on fire, and shoot ourselves before going out. the coyotes can chew on our remains and shit us out in a beautiful, earth friendly, passing, that will please everyone. you go first.
if we shoot ourselves who will pack out the gun.
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:22 pm
by pigsteak
captain, that is your dilemma. when the tribes say 'WE" give them 11 months, they are technically wrong. Being a Natioanl Monument, Devil's Tower belongs to all the people of the US, not just the tribes. hence, the friction. Taking a month for religous ceremonies would be church and state co-mingled, and we know how liberal climbers hate that mixture. climbers are just being consistent in their views on religoin and governance.
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:22 pm
by captain static
Legal and political technicalities aside, I think the Tower situation points to the lack of respect some climbers have for the interests of others. Looked at as a user conflict, the NPS has worked out the voluntary closure as a compromise. Why is that so hard to respect? A red tag on a route and the effort someone has put into a new route. Why is that so hard to respect? To me it seems that some climbers think they have an unalienable right to climb whatever they want, whenever they want, regardless of the impact it might have on others.
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:05 pm
by gunslnga
captain static wrote:To me it seems that some climbers think they have an unalienable right to climb whatever they want, whenever they want, regardless of the impact it might have on others.
I wish this was just a problem with climbers, however I have found this to be the case in several aspects of life. I think people cannot discern a privalage from a right and thus do not act accordingly, but what do you do????
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:54 pm
by Ballss
pigsteak wrote:captain, that is your dilemma. when the tribes say 'WE" give them 11 months, they are technically wrong. Being a Natioanl Monument, Devil's Tower belongs to all the people of the US, not just the tribes. hence, the friction. Taking a month for religous ceremonies would be church and state co-mingled, and we know how liberal climbers hate that mixture. climbers are just being consistent in their views on religoin and governance.
They were using it first. 8)
Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:00 am
by gunslnga
Ballss wrote:pigsteak wrote:captain, that is your dilemma. when the tribes say 'WE" give them 11 months, they are technically wrong. Being a Natioanl Monument, Devil's Tower belongs to all the people of the US, not just the tribes. hence, the friction. Taking a month for religous ceremonies would be church and state co-mingled, and we know how liberal climbers hate that mixture. climbers are just being consistent in their views on religoin and governance.
They were using it first. 8)
Exactly!!!!!! they red tagged it 300 years ago
Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:18 am
by Paul3eb
gunslnga wrote:I think people cannot discern a privalage from a right and thus do not act accordingly, but what do you do????
admittedly, i can't discern the two. would you please explain the difference for me?