RRC Archives

being someone who knows what stopped the breakins, Thanks Clevis, and the others involved. I know I gave you and several of them a beer then, and I would gladly give another.

you called it the "titantic"..please give me your opinion on how the deck chairs ar being re-arranged, and how the ship is going down...

did you really help stop the break-ins Joe? If so, thanks man--that's awesome!

not single-handedly mind you. There were some good guys in the woods putting in hours and weren't rewarded properly. Everybody kinda freaked out in the end and nobody really wants to talk about it. But yeah, we, the local (Live in the Red) climbers took care of the problem.

I've done lots of shit for that climbing community at large. Just not alot for the RRGCC. Any time I've asked a question I get hammered. I mean look at the post by Charlie, "Man Challenging" me about his resume' and his ability to "manage" people. Doesn't that ranckle any of you guys. Talk about condescending and then on top of it a personal challenge to me.
Doesn't this just stink to you. You can't even be involved with decisions that are made in your name. All you can do is build trails and donate money. You don't get any say in what happens next. If you ask a question you get met with all of this crap. Never any answers other than "we don't want to"

I can give you a hundred reasons we should have some sort of election or representative system...something...anything... But I think the question is better posed as, "why not"...why not have a representative board. why not have climbers have an actual say in the decisions that are made in their name. I mean really...WHY NOT?
In the end, one guy asking the question isn't going to do it. Its going to take more than that. I'd do a poll but I know the "usual suspects" would load it. Maybe a petition. So how about it CAPTAIN, If I got a petition and had climbers sign it saying they wanted more "representation" by way of elections. Would you acknowledge it?

would you consider an appointment to Secretary of Defense?

joe, you know i will share a beer with you and shoot some pool anytime. but when you get like this i truly feel sorry for ya dude. why do you feel that have to create drama when there is none ?

in all reality im over trying to have a reasonable discussion with you about rrgcc issues. you have played the same poor poor joe broken record for at least 6 years. same issues, same conspiricay theories and the entire time keeping a blind eye as to what is actually going on with the rrgcc and the rest of the community. its amazing how joe blind you are on the whole thing.

face the cold hard facts dude. you dont want to help with the change you speak of, you want the new folks to think you want to help. that fact has been proven over the years. the way you present yourself and your ideas is more destructive to what you are trying to say and to the organization than not.

so dont blow air my way bud, i know the story, both sides very well. i know the good things you could bring to the table and the good things you have brought over the years. i also have been there to understand why the rrgcc is standoff to you as well. the biggest thing i just dont understand is why you fight so hard against something that truly is fighting and doing good things for you and your firends. use your fighting spirit for the good and truly get involved. unfortunatly i dont think you will. i think you will still cause as big of a stink as you can on issues you really dont understand and are not going how joe thinks they should be going.

does the rrgcc have issues ? yeah, everything does and over the last 11 years i have seen them make huge changes and try to address everything they can. they do want to hear from people on how to make it a better running org, they do want more people to be involved. trust me, my back is sore from doing more than my share, i will gladly put a shovel in anyones hands. i also take it very personal when folks try to down play what has actually happened over those years. the amount of vol hours and the amount of different projects going on proves to me that the org has grown and IS ran by the community, the bod just gets to do the paper work, its not near as glorious as you think it is dude.

but as far as them listening to you , imo you have earned the reaction you get from them. if you truly want to help... change that reaction by changing your actions and reactions.

RRO wrote:joe, you know i will share a beer with you and shoot some pool anytime. but when you get like this i truly feel sorry for ya dude. why do you feel that have to create drama when there is none ?

in all reality im over trying to have a reasonable discussion with you about rrgcc issues. you have played the same poor poor joe broken record for at least 6 years. same issues, same conspiricay theories and the entire time keeping a blind eye as to what is actually going on with the rrgcc and the rest of the community. its amazing how joe blind you are on the whole thing.

face the cold hard facts dude. you dont want to help with the change you speak of, you want the new folks to think you want to help. that fact has been proven over the years. the way you present yourself and your ideas is more destructive to what you are trying to say and to the organization than not.

so dont blow air my way bud, i know the story, both sides very well. i know the good things you could bring to the table and the good things you have brought over the years. i also have been there to understand why the rrgcc is standoff to you as well. the biggest thing i just dont understand is why you fight so hard against something that truly is fighting and doing good things for you and your firends. use your fighting spirit for the good and truly get involved. unfortunatly i dont think you will. i think you will still cause as big of a stink as you can on issues you really dont understand and are not going how joe thinks they should be going.

does the rrgcc have issues ? yeah, everything does and over the last 11 years i have seen them make huge changes and try to address everything they can. they do want to hear from people on how to make it a better running org, they do want more people to be involved. trust me, my back is sore from doing more than my share, i will gladly put a shovel in anyones hands. i also take it very personal when folks try to down play what has actually happened over those years. the amount of vol hours and the amount of different projects going on proves to me that the org has grown and IS ran by the community, the bod just gets to do the paper work, its not near as glorious as you think it is dude.

but as far as them listening to you , imo you have earned the reaction you get from them. if you truly want to help... change that reaction by changing your actions and reactions.

Hear! Hear! Very well said, Matt. I have seen it all, too, and agree with every word you wrote

I think one big issue with an open election for the BOD is simply the lack of education of the masses the come to the
Gorge to climb. I'm betting a nauseating amount of climbers that use and abuse the Red don't know what the Coalition
does, nor do they care. They just want to climb. They don't care how it happens - most probably don't know how tenuous
access is in the area. There's a good chunk of the climbing populace that doesn't even know how to belay or how to shit
in the woods. Can they really be trusted to educate themselves on what the coalition is doing and the qualifications and
pick a candidate and vote in a responsible way? Man, it would be cool if they would. I ain't holding my breath.

If it ain't broke...

Clevis, I doubt if you were as rankled as I was in having my professional capability challenged yet again. You are the only person on the planet that does so with such comfort and it does not sit well with me when anyone does it. Not that anyone else ever does.

Ideas are ideas and generally worth discussing, you'll note I've rarely shied away from that and done my best to actually discuss your concerns. Implying how easy it would be for you to handle a total organizational restructuring and how I was remiss since it would be "a cinch" I considered an insult.

But, I am not president, my BOD term ends in November, I now have nothing to say to you. Welcome to the ignore list.

in short: it ain't broke, so let's not f it up