RRC Archives

Yasmeen wrote: I can't imagine that being anchored while lead belaying a much heavier climber would do anything but wrench the belayer's spine.

I was thinking anchoring through the belay loop would prevent that but the belayer would be bounced and spun around.

You can do that as long as the climber doesn't mind broken ankles.

It is in no way a good idea for a "light" climber to be attached to the ground via the haul loop.

To clarify, if the light climber does get pulled into the air, and since a "tree" is prob not directly under the first bolt, AND the belayer typically has a higher center of gravity (just above the attach point), they can easily be inverted with the harness being sqeezed as it is being pulled from two directions. Must like grabbing the ends of a round rubberband.

In most cased where a bottom anchor is nessacary, the belayer should attach the belay carabiner to teh anchor AND be standing to the side of the rope/cord/slings that go to the anchor.

But do what you want....just take pictures.

ReachHigh wrote:I've already passed this person being belayed on top rope when I fell on to a couple of feet of slack.

I think TR would be ok to tether them to something. Sling a boulder or better yet get one of those dog tie out corkscrew things and clip them to it.

Being a bigger guy (180) I've pulled some folks off the ground on lead, but even the smallest belayers on top rope have been ok. Well, for the most part. It is kinda funny to look down and watch them fight to stay standing up. Like they are on the worst tug-of-war team ever.

Most of the time when lighter belayers are having trouble lowering/holding a heavier climber is when they are out of position, and not under the first bolt/piece. Don't fight it, just find the right place, and it won't be a struggle. Oh, and belay gloves are nice as well. If the first bolt is low, then consider just clipping the 2nd, or un-clipping the first once you have clipped the 2nd.

Anchoring the belayer on any lead, other then the higher pitches of a multi pitch route is bad.

bcombs wrote:

ReachHigh wrote:I've already passed this person being belayed on top rope when I fell on to a couple of feet of slack.

I think TR would be ok to tether them to something. Sling a boulder or better yet get one of those dog tie out corkscrew things and clip them to it.

Being a bigger guy (180) I've pulled some folks off the ground on lead, but even the smallest belayers on top rope have been ok. Well, for the most part. It is kinda funny to look down and watch them fight to stay standing up. Like they are on the worst tug-of-war team ever.

pigsteak wrote:Team FA needs to disband.

What is this Team FA you speak of. I heard that they were really cool with all those FA's. But, maybe I'm wrong.

Shamis, did you break Yasi? Bad climber, no doughnut.

bcombs wrote:Being a bigger guy (180)

Lightweight

Anchoring the belayer should be fine, but it removes a lot of elasticity from the system and can dramatically increase impact forces.

Older harnesses usually had a loop in the back that would probably work for tying some kind of anchor into. I would think giving several feet of slack and tying into the rear of the harness would be ok when there was no other option. This would still allow for a somewhat soft catch, and prevent the belayer from slamming into the wall, or cheese grating up it...

Anchoring the belayer may cause the belayer to spin or flip, but its still probably better than what happened to yasmeen.

One thing that I do know for sure is that an automatic locking belay device is MANDATORY when belaying heavy people. When you get tossed, even the best belayers can lose their hold on the break line, especially if they get knocked out or something.

yas, would you have let go if you didn't have a gri gri on sunday?

Team FA (Fat Ass) is a secret society of pathetic elitist old chumps who dream of better days of climbing something harder than 5.11. One must weigh a minimum of 180 to be considered for enrollment, and if your weight ever breaks that threshold you are permanently banned from membership.

Lighter climbers may join as "junior" members, but are required to wear a weighted vest to bring parity.

belayers need to constantly be thinking, engaged in the process and that includes being able to relocate ( I'm talking 1 pitch sport )

It's hard to say, pigsteak. My natural instinct was to brake hard and lean in the direction of the brake hand to protect what I could from rock (and person) fall. I think that had I not known a rock had broken, I wouldn't have leaned in the direction of the brake hand, and wouldn't have been slammed into the wall, but instead would have "run up" it, facing it, if that makes sense. I think my inclination to duck spun me to the right and resulted in my left side getting slammed into the wall. I've thought a lot about what could have happened one way or another, and I think that maybe it's better that I spun - if I hadn't, Shamis may have landed right on top of me, and I could have suffered pretty bad head/neck injuries.

To answer your original question, though, I don't think I would have let go, since everything tensed up and I was in the brake position, but perhaps since an ATC isn't auto-locking, the weight differential would've ripped the rope through the device and given me rope burn? I've never caught someone with that large of a weight differential on an ATC when their feet were at the 2nd bolt, so I can't say exactly.

What I can say is that I've got a whole new set of guidelines for how much my lead climber has to weigh. On TR, though, I'll be more lenient.