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huh, this has been coming up a lot lately (for me that is). i got on it this weekend, and i couldn't honestly tell you how it compares to many other routes. the crux seems to be the long move in the roof, although I found some of the holds over the lip to be smaller than i had anticipated. apparently you can get a really good rest just before the crux, but i must have missed it. all the same, it has a fun big move and clean falls, so it's all good.

Get on this thing and then get on bear metal teen and tell me the routes are the same grade. You are assuming that people vote honestly. If you have done one twelve and are really excited and proud are you going to run home a vote honestly despite the fact it will lower the grade and you have lost the feather from your cap?

It's already been changed to 5.11d and the consensus stands at 5.11d also. I love that someone voted 5.12d on it. That's just one of those people you're talking about Rib trying to bring up the grade.

mcrib wrote:Get on this thing and then get on bear metal teen and tell me the routes are the same grade.

i do that all the time and the results are sometimes laughable.

mcrib wrote:...are you going to run home a vote honestly despite the fact it will lower the grade and you have lost the feather from your cap?

yes

hey, i wasn't looking to stir up the grade debate as just visualize how shorter people make the move.

but, just for kicks, get on tissue tiger and BMT.

gripster wrote:apparently you can get a really good rest just before the crux, but i must have missed it.

...wait...what? Are people from NC adverse to laying down? I think I for real fell asleep on this route.

mcrib wrote:Get on this thing and then get on bear metal teen and tell me the routes are the same grade. You are assuming that people vote honestly. If you have done one twelve and are really excited and proud are you going to run home a vote honestly despite the fact it will lower the grade and you have lost the feather from your cap?

Everyone agrees that Bare Metal is tough for 12a. Then again, I have more trouble with the crux on Manifest destiny than any move on bare metal. Bare metal is extremely pumpy and full of 5.9-5.11a moves--crazy tough to redpoint. I'd have a better chance of redpointing Manifest Destiny, but I find the first move on the roof reachy and then next set of holds crappy until your feet cut and you grab at the good holds that most people use coming over the roof. (yes, I am short)

I think Manifest is a soft 12a for short people and 11c for normal sized people.

There are plenty of short climber females who have no problem with that crux.

nevermind, forget i asked, i quit. did someone say polo?

Meadows wrote:There are plenty of short climber females who have no problem with that crux.

Are you trying to make me feel better about myself?
I didn't say that short climbers can't do it. I've done it too. I just think it is harder than 11c if you are below 5'4.
And... that no move on Bare Metal is hard (at all) by itself. It is an endurance climb--different animal all together.

A better comparison might be to a climb like Mama Benson, that is easy, with a sequence of harder moves. Again, Manifest would come up as a soft 12a for shorter people in that deal. And 11c for taller people.