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Sik,
I have, along with other climbers who have been active in establishing routes, been trying to encourage other younger generation climbers to step up and take ownership of the maintenance and establishemnt of routes. This is particularly the case for younger hard climbers who have run out of things to do. Kenny did step up and put up some of the finest 5.13's in the Red.
So, now a question has been raise before the community in this community forum whether or not a wrong has been done- that wrong being was one of Kenny's projects done with out his consent.
It is an ethical question that interests the whole community and on which the each individual has an opinion.

i wouldn't disagree with that a whole lot.. but i'd still say we don't know much of anything yet. or do we? either way, wait until things are cleared up. i hope, for kenny's sake, it's just a miscommunication or something along those lines..

No Lurk, you are absolutely right. I apologize if I said anything offensive and really, it's none of my business. My only beef is that you took the "gossip first" road. Also, hasn't this dead horse been beaten to death more than a few times?

If you would like to speak of ethics though, let us talk of the ethics involved in interpersonal relationships. Answer me this: What would have been the more ethical thing to do, call Ben first and say "Ben I heard you got on so-and-so's project, what's going on?" and then said "Well, this kind of raises some ethical questions and I would like to make a post on RRC.com to get some feedback on it". Then, out of courtesy, you act according to his respoonse. Ethics...common courtesy...etc.

Mj

Hello to all,

I spent a large amount of time this winter with Kenny watching and helping him develop his skills in putting up new lines. Kenny invited me to come down this winter and see his new "jewel" that he has just been so excited and deeply passionate about.

I myself was once one of those kids who knew nothing about drilling and looked at the "masters" of the steel plunkings at the Red and learned and developed some knowledge about the "art" of bolting from them. Kenny worked his tail off this winter cleaning lines, fixing ropes, and breathing in drill dust. I myself helped him haul gear, donated my own ropes, and worked on the trail just to see him happy and feel that same feeling I had years ago when I was learning. Sadly I have been sidelined by the suicide death of my mother, the birth of my son Noah, and the ass burying task of graduate school.

I can appreciate the efforts that all climbers who take up the hard task of placing the steel go through. To this day I am grateful for the countless efforts that Porter, Hugh, Chris, Neal, Jeff, John, and the dozens of others I have forgot to mention who spent their own hard earned money and time to help make the Red the majestic place it is. For that I am deeply grateful. And Kenny who is my friend and climbing partner I hope and pray that he continues to learn and grow in his skills and who knows maybe that enthusiasm and drive will bring him someday to discover the next "Motherlode"....

Tony

"Color is the most relative medium in art." Josef Albers

Paul3eb wrote: i hope, for kenny's sake, it's just a miscommunication or something along those lines..

boy i hope so too....

it wasn't the arete was it?

i think he got that last fall or early this year.. i think he's calling 13a or 13b. i forget the name he had for it.. actually, is it "paradise lost"?

Colorscholar wrote:Does anyone know who removed the red ribbon on my project at Purgatory? I bolted the line this winter and was unable to return to send it due to my wife having a baby in February. I had planned on sending it this coming weekend (April) and now the ribbon is missing and fresh chalk lies upon the holds.

Congrats on the baby. Um, was the ribbon tied to the first bolt or maybe someplace where it might have disappeared during the weather?

I hope that Ben or Kenny will comment.

Greetings to all,

In regards to my route and the ribbon, yes it was there. I tied it super tight and it was well secure on the hanger. The only chalk on the climb was mine from cleaning and "dabbing" the holds. Kenny has been very observant of the line for me during the whole baby thing and I trust him when he tells me that the "New" chalk is fresh and the ribbon is missing.

I bolted that line in November right before the bad weather hit and my wife put the gate down on my climbing due to the closeness of the delivery date. May I also add that watching a child be born is by far the most intense thing I have ever seen or gone through. Makes a 30 foot runout on a zero TCU seem like childs play. All I can say is I found a whole new respect for woman and mothers after watching that go down.

Anyway I plugged in the steel on that line and was sooooo excited about having a new route to help get me back into climbing again. If someone did do my line prior to my knowledge it would certainly prove to be dissapointing to me. I don't get out much now and my climbing time is limited. I think that out of respect to me and Kenny that knowing those lines back there at Purgatory were all "Brand New" would lead a climber to respect the "unspoken" rule of allowing an sufficiant amount of time for someone to make an effort to send the route. Obviously my line had only seen about 4.5 months of lag time, of which the majority of it was during the blast of winter.

I am hoping at least someone can answer as to why this occured, it is not the end of the world but it certainly dents my enthusiasm and hopes for climbing. If anything it just seems kinda sad that no one even made an effort to contact me and just say "Hey whats the skinny."

I planned to name the line "Believer" based on a small incident I had while trying to fix a line to the top of the cliff. Lets just say I found "faith" real quick when a pack of dogs came running at me on Route 11. The details on this are quite humiliating, but then again who hasn't gotten lost up top before. I think I need one of those fancy GPS things. But hey at least I can laugh at myself and cherish the memory when I am 80 years old and sitting in a rocking chair.

Tony

"A person who aims at nothing is sure to hit it." - Anon

Whereas I agree that this site is a great medium for discussing ethics about preserving, protecting and furthering climbing (as well as just a bunch of old biddies posting BS to amuse themselves) I guess I would still caution people about posting hearsay before contacting accused parties.

It falls under the category of general human respect and the golden rule.

And if some MF knowingly sent without permission another climber's route then I'm sure there is some place in a dank dark basement for them to start scrubbing away mold and mildew in atonement for their moral depravity.

-an old biddy.