RRC Archives

GWG wrote:I've only seen it once where the climber took a fall and the person belaying them with a gri gri was pulled up to the first clip. The gri gri was pulled against the bolt and held open. Fortunately, the belayer had enough sense to hold onto the tail of the rope and not drop the climber.

GWG

I totally agree. Most of my belayers weigh less than me so if I take a good whipper they stand a good chance of hitting the draw. I'd hate to have that close the brake and then find dirt. But besides that, look around sometime and watch someone who is belaying with a gri-gri on lead. They've usually got one hand pulling rope through and the other hand on the brake if not actually holding it closed. Is there something wrong with this picture? The climber falls and now you have to look down to find the right tail of rope to grab and hope the device doesn't kill your friend since it wouldn't let you hold the rope properly. I know some people love their auto-locking devices and I think they're great for top-roping, especially when someone is going to be at it for a while. But I don't think they should ever be used for leading.

They also have a nasty tendency to cross-load your locking biner if you're not really careful. I somehow fell while clipping a few weeks ago and only after I found out that I wasn't going to crater did we realize that the locker was cross-loaded.

Why do I feel like this is rc.com? Look, gri-gri is a tool that works just fine as long as you use it properly. People are dropped with ATC's as well, but no one ever blames the atc when it happens.

Personally, I love gri-gri's and use them all the time. Except when doing multi-pitch or maybe bringing up a 2nd. It isn't that hard to learn to feed rope with out grabing the handle, except maybe when the leader is clipping.

I want you all to stop and think about how many lead falls are caught every weekend, just in the red, by belayers with Gri-Gri's, and then tell me it is unsafe by design.

And, going to the anchor falls are hardly worst case. In fact, that is most likely to be the safest fall on the route. I know I take to whipper-for-fun form the chains on plenty of routes, but won't do that going to the 2nd or 3rd on most routes. The more rope out, the less force of the fall (most of the time).

Wes

marathonmedic wrote:

I know some people love their auto-locking devices and I think they're great for top-roping, especially when someone is going to be at it for a while. But I don't think they should ever be used for leading.

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I'm not at all convinced that non-grigri belays are safer than grigri belays. There are trade-offs either way. If I took a long fall and the belayer was not anchored and got sucked into the wall and knocked senseless, I think I'd rather it be a grigri that fell out of their unconscious hands rather than an ATC. The grigri has a much higher "fail-safe" factor than any other belay device.

Operator intervention, however, can make anything unsafe.

ZSpider

Wes wrote:It isn't that hard to learn to feed rope with out grabing the handle, except maybe when the leader is clipping.

I'll grant you that if you use it that way it's probably safer than an ATC, albiet you may shortrope a bit. But how many times do you see people actually belaying that way instead of just holding it closed? I don't have as much of problem with the tool as I do with the vast numbers of people that don't use them safely.

Zspider wrote:marathonmedic wrote:

I know some people love their auto-locking devices and I think they're great for top-roping, especially when someone is going to be at it for a while. But I don't think they should ever be used for leading.

*************
I'm not at all convinced that non-grigri belays are safer than grigri belays. There are trade-offs either way. If I took a long fall and the belayer was not anchored and got sucked into the wall and knocked senseless, I think I'd rather it be a grigri that fell out of their unconscious hands rather than an ATC. The grigri has a much higher "fail-safe" factor than any other belay device.
ZSpider

I've now been educated. Let me say that a _properly used_ gri-gri is safe for lead belaying but I still stand by my statement about the majority of people not using them safely.

marathonmedic wrote:

Zspider wrote:marathonmedic wrote:

I know some people love their auto-locking devices and I think they're great for top-roping, especially when someone is going to be at it for a while. But I don't think they should ever be used for leading.

*************
I'm not at all convinced that non-grigri belays are safer than grigri belays. There are trade-offs either way. If I took a long fall and the belayer was not anchored and got sucked into the wall and knocked senseless, I think I'd rather it be a grigri that fell out of their unconscious hands rather than an ATC. The grigri has a much higher "fail-safe" factor than any other belay device.
ZSpider

I've now been educated. Let me say that a _properly used_ gri-gri is safe for lead belaying but I still stand by my statement about the majority of people not using them safely.

Then why are there not many, many more accidents? Just go to a crag in the red with some 11's and up sport routes, and watch whipper after whipper, all caught just fine with gri-gri's.

Wes

I think the Gri-Gri is a safe belay device but for me, personally, it is just teaching me bad habits. I am definitely going to miss using it but Michelle's life is worth way more to me than being a little more comfortable belaying for a few minutes.

Absolutely Ray! Besides, there are plenty of ways to switch hands or tie off with an ATC if you need to.

True, but what about those moments of inattention while belaying with an ATC. Like moving the rope bag, yelling at dogs, giving beta, talking to people walking by, etc. During those moments, having the potential of an auto lock is a good thing. And, those things happen all the time in the real world. Personal choice for sure, and I trust people with both, but I *feel* better when the belay is with a Gri Gri. And even better still when the belay is an A-team belayer, gri-gri or atc.

Wes