warning: big group at pebble and pistol this weekend

[the lurkist]

Is there a responsiblity for large groups like the Earlham group, or the Miami of Ohio group the frequents Global Village, to invest in the community- i.e. give back monetarily or with sweat equity? They are taking advantage of a venue created for community use to facilitate their outdoor intramural programs. Not to deride these groups too much, but they are responsible for an inordinate amount of base erosion and impacts at the bases of routes like Eureka and Environmental Impacts. The trails up to Global is destroyed as is the trail to Pistol Ridge, largely because to large groups congregating at these cliffs with easy routes.
Shouldn't they be making contributions to off set their impacts?

[rhunt]

I have to agree with the lurkist here. Just like one person needs to do his or her small part to 'give back', large groups should do their large part.

[Yasmeen]

I think you make a great point, lurkist. You should discuss the idea with the directors of the Outdoor Pursuit Center at Miami (I have contact info if you would like it). I'm sure they would be willing to work with the RRGCC to give back to the climbing community. I would hope so, at least.

[Guest]

Andy, every district has their own rules with regards to specific activities.

I'm not sure exactly how this applies to school groups, but here are some exerpts from the DBNF website:

Guiding - Providing services or assistance (such as supervision, protection, education, training, packing, touring, subsistence or interpretation) for monetary or other gain. Includes the holder's employees, agents and instructors.

When a permit is needed. All guiding and outfitting activities on National Forest System lands, commercial or non-commercial require a permit.

Operating an outfitter-guide service without a permit on National Forest System lands is punishable under 36 CFR 361.10 with a possible fine of $5,000 and/or 6 months in jail.

When to apply for a permit. Completed application forms must be received at least 6 weeks in advance of planned start of operations. Processing of applications is subject to available administrative time. Beginning the application process early will allow adequate time to obtain proper insurance, license, approval from other districts, etc.

[Guest]

sounds like yer screwed if you don't already have your permit.

[MiaRock]

I would say that 95% of the school groups that go out don't have a permit and probably don't care...

[SikMonkey]

THIS is a job for the RRGCLM! I will be passing out torches, clubs and pitchforks at the trailhead to anyone who wants to participate.

Mj

[tsparks]

I agree that we need to do something about it, but who is to stop these groups from just saying they are "really" two separate groups of 6 instead of one big group of 12? I don't think that anyone would be able to enforce any of those rules. In my opinion it comes down to whether or not these groups want to comply with the rules.

[Guest]

sorry I deleted my post, but I wanted to come up with something constructive instead of just "I say we need to do something about it." I know this is an issue the CAC had planned to address. So, CAC, have you?

Tsparks, of course people have to want to comply, but I suspect most of them simply are not aware of the regulations and potential fines and sentences.

[bberlier]

Even though schools may charge individuals for a group to go climbing, it is consider "not for profit". Therefore a permit is not needed. Those FS rules apply to for profit guide services. It does seem like a double standard since the school groups usually have larger groups than a guide service.

The FS also limits where guiding can take place. But again, Schools do not fall under those rules.