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And the Land Before Time Wall has decent routes and is the closest to the parking lot. Not shabby if you don't have a lot of time to hike or want to catch a few easier climbs on your way out of the Valley. Bummer it's not in the new guidebook.

woodchuck008 wrote:Again, the guidebook and routes are not just intended for the visiting hard core climber. I know Webers were pleased with the addition of the new easier route areas, just to pull the crowds off Bruise Bros. and shorten the waiting lines, crowds, erosion, etc.down there. Thus including them in the new book would have been a benefit for all, and those not interested in lower grade routes lose nothing from their fine day of 5.12's just because the book mentions these lowly routes. No need to mock those who start out( as we all did sometime) on easier routes.

The only reason I responded jokingly was because I simply asked about whether the guidebooks were available at Miguel's, and I didn't really need your helpful information on which crags were or were not included. Land Before Time has couple fun routes that even those who climb 5.12 might find enjoyable on a day they bring their non-5.12 climbing friends along.

SpikySkaKid wrote:And the Land Before Time Wall has decent routes and is the closest to the parking lot. Not shabby if you don't have a lot of time to hike or want to catch a few easier climbs on your way out of the Valley. Bummer it's not in the new guidebook.

But it is online, as well as on the map that is located at the trail head and the routes all have little round tags on them, telling you the name and grade.

I have no idea why they weren't included in the guidebook, whether this was because Webers wanted it that way, or because Ray made a decision for some reason, or because it was just an oversight. I would have expected to find them in the new guidebook, sure, but in the grad scheme of things it is not a biggie.

Ray said he got busy and didn't have time to get to the walls. Everyone complaining about it, knows about the walls. Quit yer bitchin.

to be honest, who really needs a guide for Muir anyway with all the signage and route tags?

Honestly a big reason why the walls weren't included were due to the fact that my dog was dying during the months I worked on the guidebook and I didn't want to deny her a single day of being in the woods with us where she loved to be. This kept me out of Muir because I couldn't stand to leave her alone.

The "no dogs allowed" policy with Muir has always been a deterrent for us but this just took it to another level. Sorry you feel the product is inferior because of it but I stuck the crags online so hopefully that helps out.

i'm working on a guidebook that comes with a unmanned aerial drone that will provide realtime data on which routes have fixed draws/crowds. swarm

Will your drone kill non-combatants, Clif?

collateral damage/fortuitous excess, does anyone really know the difference? only pigsteak ever truly understood me.

i'd say most people who care about these things (for better or worse) would say i have a poor grasp on american 'exceptionalism'

sorry to hear about Ray's dog

I was surprised to see that Bear's Den was not in the new guidebook, either. How come?

That will probably be in next years guidebook.