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Re: Question for the CC
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:52 pm
by neuroshock
Clevis Hitch wrote:captain static wrote:Clevis Hitch wrote:Why are the board members not directly elected by climbers?
This is a straight question that deserves a straight, simple, answer. Here it is - RRGCC Board members are not directly elected by climbers because the original founders of the RRGCC chose to use the "non-membership" model in setting up the organization. This is a common model for small non-profits. The way I like to explain it is that the RRGCC is a company, not a government. When I have time after Rocktoberfest, I can get into the benefits of the "non-membership" model if you like.
It may be common. But its not right. Correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't the CC set in response to the closures going on in the NF and they were formed as a USERS GROUP to parlay with the NF because the NF doesn't speak with individuals, it speaks to USERS GROUPS.
As a USERS GROUP, for non-elected members to make arbitrary decisions in the CONSTITUANCY's name. That smells. Why can't we have an elected voice that aids in the decision making process. Why does it have to be unelected czars who make secret decisions for us as climbers.
The last time I checked it said Red River Gorge
CLIMBERS Coalition. Plural. If you want to make it the Kool Kids Klimbing club, I'm sure you can. Even though the initials are already taken. I'm sure the Arian Nation won't mind too much
Clevis, I just want to get a better idea of what you're looking for. If the BoD
were elected and decisions were still made against your personal desires/recommendations, would it just be easier to stomach?
As for your claim of "arbitrary decisions in the CONSTITUANCY's name," even if there was an elected individual, or BoD as a whole, the decisions would still be "arbitrary."
In your mind, who would be eligible to be on a ballot? What would qualify the person, aside from a willingness to work and taking heat (appropriate or not)? Who would be eligible to vote? I agree with RRO that an election would likely be a popularity contest, not necessarily a search for the best skill set for the issues at hand.
I'm not, and likely never will be, on the BoD.
-Mike
Re: Question for the CC
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:00 pm
by Toad
Start your own organization.
Re: Question for the CC
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:26 pm
by rhunt
Clevis Hitch wrote:captain static wrote:Clevis Hitch wrote:Why are the board members not directly elected by climbers?
This is a straight question that deserves a straight, simple, answer. Here it is - RRGCC Board members are not directly elected by climbers because the original founders of the RRGCC chose to use the "non-membership" model in setting up the organization. This is a common model for small non-profits. The way I like to explain it is that the RRGCC is a company, not a government. When I have time after Rocktoberfest, I can get into the benefits of the "non-membership" model if you like.
It may be common. But its not right. Correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't the CC set in response to the closures going on in the NF and they were formed as a USERS GROUP to parlay with the NF because the NF doesn't speak with individuals, it speaks to USERS GROUPS.
As a USERS GROUP, for non-elected members to make arbitrary decisions in the CONSTITUANCY's name. That smells. Why can't we have an elected voice that aids in the decision making process. Why does it have to be unelected czars who make secret decisions for us as climbers.
The last time I checked it said Red River Gorge
CLIMBERS Coalition. Plural. If you want to make it the Kool Kids Klimbing club, I'm sure you can. Even though the initials are already taken. I'm sure the Arian Nation won't mind too much
captain static gave you the official answer yet you still had to be argumentative which is contradictory to you original post. You got your answer - leave it at that. Anything more and you will be starting the flame war your said you wanted to avoid. If you don't like the official answer take it up in private.
***I am not speaking as a BOD member or RRGCC representative, in fact I am not even a current member - which I needs to change.***
Re: Question for the CC
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:43 pm
by captain static
RRGCC By Laws wrote:SECTION 2.2: Specific Purpose. The Red River Gorge Climbers’ Coalition was formed to ensure open public access to quality, climbing opportunities for the benefit of the recreating climbing public in, and around, the Red River Gorge of Kentucky on public and private land, while encouraging the conservation of the natural environment by protecting, promoting, and ensuring responsible climbing.
Re: Question for the CC
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:51 pm
by Clevis Hitch
Saying that the CC is a company is a mis-statement.
The climbers coalition was formed to parlay as a users group which morphed into a charity/non-profit. Now you're saying its a company and not in the business of governance, but with the LAC going through (if it ever progresses) the Climbers coalition will be in the position of "Governing" the climbing public...
Saying that you don't do it isn't an answer. Its a statement. It doesn't answer the question or even properly acknowledge the question. It just says, (and I'm paraphrasing here); "Because we don't want to."
So once again I'll ask a straightforward question. "Why are the board members not directly elected by climbers?
Re: Question for the CC
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:58 pm
by Clevis Hitch
captain static wrote:RRGCC By Laws wrote:SECTION 2.2: Specific Purpose. The Red River Gorge Climbers’ Coalition was formed to ensure open public access to quality, climbing opportunities for the benefit of the recreating climbing public in, and around, the Red River Gorge of Kentucky on public and private land, while encouraging the conservation of the natural environment by protecting, promoting, and ensuring responsible climbing.
All of that is well and good but it doesn't even address the question of
"why are there no direct elections?"
Come on man, don't try to baffle me with bullshit or bury the question. Can we work something out here?
As far as the charity of the bod and the direction that they've gone. I don't disagree or want to change. I just wanna know why we can't have direct elections from the constituancy. I mean really, do you think climbers want to destroy the CC? I think the average climber wants to be more involved, its just the CC is stand-offish and secretive. Two things that don't lead to participation....
Re: Question for the CC
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:21 pm
by caribe
Flow Chart:
Is it broken ─ yes ─► fix it
|
no
|
▼
don't fix it
Re: Question for the CC
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:52 pm
by toad857
dumb thread.
Re: Question for the CC
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:03 pm
by bcombs
Re: Question for the CC
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:12 pm
by Toad
Ouroboros