RRC Archives

michaelarmand wrote:I love innovation, but I think belaying has become more complicated with all the new belay devices on the market.
I think we would all be safer if we only used one device (and used it well).

I was just thinking the same thing. I feel very comfortable with the gri gri, so why change devices? It just adds room for error. My brain has been wired for the gri gri over the past 12 or 23 years.

Nobody has mentioned it, but I feel terrible for the belayers involved w/ a climbing accident. No matter what the cause of the accident, the belayer often feels responsible. Anyone can make a mistake, and many of us have made mistakes, but luckily came out ok. I hope some people check in and offer support to whomever was belaying Mike the other day. That's a tough position to be in.

Used properly any market device will work well. Mentally map your dominant hand to the brake-end of the rope and always track this end with your hand. In the event of incident your body position has to default to brake-position (hand on brake). All device manuals have this general recipe as the undercurrent in the instructions. Their research has shown them that this is way to do it. If the population strays from this, the frequency of accidents will increase.

I really feel for the belayer in the recent accident. What an awful experience.

[quote="steep4me"] I hope some people check in and offer support to whomever was belaying Mike the other day. quote]

Amen. He needs support.

anticlmber wrote:climbing is dangerous, period.

1) please keep a hand on the brake end at ALL TIMES, gri-gri, cinch, atc, whatever, hold on to it please.
2) ALWAYS double check each other BEFORE leaving the ground.
3) know what the climber plans on doing once at the anchors, before leaving the ground.
4) please don't teach" how to clean when someone is at the anchor
5) if you see something unsafe, say something.
6) look out for others and maybe they will look out for you, remember, we are all stewards of our sport/area and we owe it to others to pass on the kind, caring, and responsible community vibe that we have.

be safe

Agree, of course. But while the first 4 are no-brainer,s things get a bit less clear on #5 and 6.

I can honestly say that I have seen more people with brake hands off the rope (using gri-gris) at the 'lode than at any "beginner-friendly" crag. If the guys are climbing .13s, and have taken and caught hundreds of falls, are they going to listen to me telling them to keep the hand on the rope at all times? Nope. The most I have said in this scenario is something along the lines of "wow, it makes me really nervous when I see people doing that". The other person would smile back and say something like "oh, it's O.K., I got it under control"

So while I agree that we should look out for each other, saying something really only works if the person saying it has some weight with the people that are doing something unsafe.

when in doubt a good solid "LOOK MOTHERF$%KER" works well.

yeah, i don't plan on changing the world all at once but if we continually lay down without a peep then how long before you have "welcome" tattooed on you?

You don't need your hand on the rope at all times with a gri gri--you need yor hand OFF the cam if there is a fall (one way to have your hand off of the cam would be to grab the rope instead).

I sure don't want to start yet another gri-gri thread... but early on in my gri-gri user days, I caught a fall where the much-heavier climber pulled me up to the first bolt-- or rather slammed me, gri-gri and all, into the first bolt, it wasn't the case of slowly being pulled up to the first bolt, if it weren't for the bolt being where it was, I would have continued going up for quite a bit. Anyway, the cam got opened when the gri-gri pressed against the draw, and the only reason the climber didn't deck was because my brake hand was on the rope. Just letting go of the cam to allow it to do it's work would not have been enough. I have never had this situation again, so, theoretically, all the other falls would have been just fine with my hands off the cam and not on the rope. But one time is all it takes, so yeah, my hand will stay on the brake.



I thought of another addition to anti-climber list:

7) be familiar with a variety of belay devices, so even if you never use Cinch, (or SUM, or Eddie, or whatever) you can tell if the person who is using it is doing it correctly.

steep4me wrote:You don't need your hand on the rope at all times with a gri gri--you need yor hand OFF the cam if there is a fall (one way to have your hand off of the cam would be to grab the rope instead).

and its this mentallity that causes accidents. most people i watch just hold the cam to feed rope, many w/o watching the climber. when someone falls, it only takes a second to cause an eternity.
if you can't understand that your brake hand is just that and that it should live on the brake end, well....then maybe you don't need to belay

my $3.74

i have seen two gri-gris, both in good shape, both loaded properly with ropes of 10mm or bigger fail to engage the cam. both times the person had a hand on the break end, luckily.

steep4me wrote:You don't need your hand on the rope at all times with a gri gri--you need yor hand OFF the cam if there is a fall (one way to have your hand off of the cam would be to grab the rope instead).

Do these instructions come from Petzl???