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dont come out to golden, or just colorado. it sucks. the climbing here is all slab and it just sucks.

In case you go to Kolorado, Table Mtn. (aka Table Pile) sux. Shelf is OK, but bring a rack so you don't have to feel guilty about clipping bolts next to cracks (eg. I Claudius). The same can be said for much of Clear Creek Canyon. There are supposed to be decent sport routes in Boulder Canyon like Animal World. Be sure to avoid the Sport Park unless you like climbing on chipped holds, waaay inflated grades and clipping bolts off of hand jams.

I used to wonder that when I lived near Red River. People used to say RedRocks. Then I went to Redrocks and found that Red RIver was better anyway. I went to shelf once, which was interesting, but I never went back. I've gone to Table 3X in 8 years here and yawn... the most exciting thing there was betting on which dogs would fight.
Boulder Canyon had some nice sport-climbing at Easter Rock, Animal World, Bell Buttress, etc...
But why go out West, amidst the 500-2000' cliffs looking for bitty little sport climbs? You already live in a sport-climbing heaven. I guess I can see the point in new palces and new rock, I guess...
-T.

I agree with you tony about sport climbing being pretty darn good here compared with out West. But it is difficult to climb with a family on multi-pitch stuff so it's not so bad to think about sport climbing for that reason.

UBG, you got issues man. You do realize that the rock itself doesn't care whether there is a bolt next to a crack or not, don't you? Fundamentally, there's no inherent ethic regarding rock climbing, other than some artificial construct "we" create. Yeah, Table Mtn. doesn't have it all, but it's not that bad. You could be climbing in Florida.

My issue is that I hate seeing climbing being "dumbed down." Maintaining higher standards doesn't keep the activity of climbing from progressing. At the same time, I have fun bitching about wankers bolting cracks.

Okay, fair enough. Maybe you're not insane after all.

Benny,

Are you still cranky because you can't climb hard?

Haven't chopped any bolts lately have you?

I know you....

Oh and Johnny you are right....he does have issues.

Hell yeah I have issues. Of course my issues and the fact that I don't climb hard really have nothing to do with the fact that bolting cracks is for lame wankers.

Power2U, I think I know you too, but you're no one important.

Uh, if you don't think there is a well established ethic here about bolts next to cracks, you ought to see the shit fights that have followed this 'accepted?' practice? The mother-of-all-bolt-wars was written up in the mags for a year.
Further, go the a FHRC and try to get a permit to place a bolt near a crack in Eldo or the Flatirons- it ain't gonna happen.

The obvious places like Rifle and Clear Creek I have not discussed, because I've never been there.

-T.

PS, I think Ben climbs pretty reasonably hard. Although he's not a pal of mine, he gets props for climbing reasonably well. Not a lot of people lead 5.11 on their own gear. To the best of my knowledge (and I do have some) Ben was not involved in any of the local bolt wars.