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my question is does grade matter?

What if the bolter never returns and has never been to redriverclimbing.com?

Let's open the can of worms right now....
Red tags on trad lines. Regardless of difficulty and time spent cleaning the crack I don't believe you should ever be able to keep it closed to get the FA. Putting a bolt at the base so that it's "mixed" and you can hang a piece of red tape to keep it closed is pretty lame too.

If you bolt a sport climb and don't send in a year I say it should be open game.

Meadows wrote:What if the bolter never returns and has never been to redriverclimbing.com?

But that certainly could never happen!

Rhunt, I also don't think that the bolter always makes the rules ... period! I thought such things were decided by the climbing community, i.e. local ethics.

the slimey slope....red tags are optional stop signs.

that was always my quandry. the red tagged wouldn't even be there without the equippers effort, so why all of the sudden does the peanut gallery feel they have a right to dictate when it gets opened?

I would think that there are plenty of lines without hopping on tagged projects.

It was just in this latest article, Dave graham seems like it is his "right" to take soemone's 14c route, just because he can climb it in 5 tries, whereas the equipper may take many months. Just seems like the courtesy thing to do.

pigsteak wrote: that was always my quandry. the red tagged wouldn't even be there without the equippers effort, so why all of the sudden does the peanut gallery feel they have a right to dictate when it gets opened?

I would think that there are plenty of lines without hopping on tagged projects.

I agree! You are the one that asked the peanut gallery the question. Though I suspect you knew the answers you would get before you asked it.

are we still sore over blank canvas?

what really piqued my interest was that the route graham sent was easily within his abilities. it wasn't like it was some futuristic 15c that was going to set a new standard. and the equipper had clearly stated that he preferred that he be given first shot at it.

Courtesy is as rare as common sense.

At some point, the developer ought to open the route up if they can't send it, or can't put the time into projecting and sending it after a year or two.

No hard set rules. climbers ought to respect the equipper and their red tag. the equipper ought to open the climb up at point point if they aren't going to work it.