whatever happened to onsight climbing???

Post by **anticlmber** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:09 pm

just a question to the sheep out there. do you think it is right for beta to be included in a route description; in a guidebook? i.e. "place a #5 and then reach out to the hand jam at such and such location........" whatever happened to figuring it out yourself. Helllloooooo..... its 11 trad. know your shit by this point or go tug it in the bushes somewhere else. same as telling folks where to go on the routes. its a single pitch find the good holds or make do. this is why everyone wants to downrate and uprate crap all the time. the get spoonfed so many routes that those feel easier than the easy route they know nothing about. TFY get out there in the crazy world that is climbing and figure it out yourself. you as a climber will only improve yourself as well as this sport. Dont spray beta at the first sign of someone struggling.... this is climbing and it is s'posed to be tough. if your mommy doesn't tie your shoes or cut your food for yo than (wo)man up and use your head for something other than my target practice.

just an opinion, dont be mad because i know where the "hidden" hold is, i searched it out.

Post by **haas** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:43 pm

Shout it from the roof tops brotha! (and even with beta Ro Shampo is .11c at best)

Post by **SCIN** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:46 am

Well, obviously being the target of your comments, I'll bite. When writing the route descriptions for the new guidebook, I definitely was always thinking in the back of my head "Should I say this? Should I say that?" as far as "beta" goes. Sometimes I just wrote a description while climbing the route in my head and left it at that. When that happened, I probably told more than what a seasoned climber would want to hear. I guess I just had more fun being creative than just saying "Climb the next crack to the right". Try that for 1300 routes and you will go insane.

If I piss anyone off by giving away too much information then I guess I'll just have to live with being disliked like every other guidebook author since I can't reverse my actions. It's just hard to find a balance that will please everyone when writing a guidebook. Fortunately there's nothing too tricky about the routes at the Red though so it shouldn't be too much of a problem by giving a detailed description. If this were Rifle (with all the trick beta and stuff) it would be a bit different. From my experience, most of the gear placements are pretty straightforward at the Red so I can't see where mentioning a placement size would blow any onsight.

Post by **Horatio Felacio** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:49 am

fuck you anticlimber! "oh look at me, i'm fucking cool and hip and know what climbing is all about because i'm a fuckin cock gobbler that hangs out at miguels all the damn time. i'm in the "in" crowd you bitches! so just ask me when you want to know anything about the red"

you're just another damn homeless migger of the red. get a job and quit wasting your life. fuckin asshole elitist.

Post by **pawilkes** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:39 am

and from his spray list he doesn't even climb the "11 trad" that he is bitching about. 5.7 trad, even i've done that.

Post by **anticlmber** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:41 am

well hello to you to ho. i'll get a "job" whenever you come back over. im not attacking anyone, im just asking a question. like do you want your ovaries back?

Post by **pigsteak** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:43 am

real climbers use guidebooks? I thought giving away the grade even ruined an onsite...

Post by **SCIN** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:23 am

It's impossible to onsite a sport line in the Red. Just follow the tick marks.

Post by **J-Rock** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:28 am

Post by **flashmaster** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:21 am

Anticlimber is just pissed off because his sissy ass is living down there and still can barely pull his fat ass off the ground after 3 years strait. BITCH!!!!