The official word on the purchase of The Murray Property
Statements like these can most definitely deter future donations.Gretchen wrote:I, as the President of the Board of the Red River Gorge Climbers' Coalition, am giving you a warning Joe. The only warning. Don't push it further or you will be asked to refrain from climbing on the Murray Property on a permant basis.
Does he have a strange bear claw like appendage protruding from his neck? He kep petting it.
Sad, but so much like everywhere else today. Climbers aren't really all that cool. Most are spoiled brats that want everything thier way. It might be the SR in KY today. But just look at any other climber area and you will see the same thing:
Bolt wars (adding and chopping) everywhere, esp. around boulder.
Skinner illegally bolting routes in Hueco at night
Illegally bolting and publishing routes in the red on FS land and bolting private land without permission.
Drilling and chipping routes and probems left and right
Aid line fixed gear added and/or removed.
Boulderers that trash an area or go to areas that are closed.
Climbers doing all kinda of illegal things in the valley and everywhere else.
More and more, I am truely ashamed to be a climber. We are just not all that great of a group of people.
I have no doubt that climbers could have done all the things the oil company says they did.
Climbing access is just going to keep getting worse and worse. It will be funny, in a sad way, when people wake up 5 years from now and think back to the good old days of 2k4.
Even worse are climbers on the internet. No accountablity. No courtesy. I am as guilty as anyone. BBS's have not made be a better person, only worse. While I have meet some cool people through them, overall, I see only bad things come from it. They have not made climbing access better, only worse.
Wes
Bolt wars (adding and chopping) everywhere, esp. around boulder.
Skinner illegally bolting routes in Hueco at night
Illegally bolting and publishing routes in the red on FS land and bolting private land without permission.
Drilling and chipping routes and probems left and right
Aid line fixed gear added and/or removed.
Boulderers that trash an area or go to areas that are closed.
Climbers doing all kinda of illegal things in the valley and everywhere else.
More and more, I am truely ashamed to be a climber. We are just not all that great of a group of people.
I have no doubt that climbers could have done all the things the oil company says they did.
Climbing access is just going to keep getting worse and worse. It will be funny, in a sad way, when people wake up 5 years from now and think back to the good old days of 2k4.
Even worse are climbers on the internet. No accountablity. No courtesy. I am as guilty as anyone. BBS's have not made be a better person, only worse. While I have meet some cool people through them, overall, I see only bad things come from it. They have not made climbing access better, only worse.
Wes
"There is no secret ingredient"
Po, the kung fu panda
Po, the kung fu panda
It is true that climbers are not always great people. Climbers do illegal and stupid things sometimes. However, the rest of the world is the same way. Did climbers were the exception to that. The reason access is gettin worse is becasue everyone is selfish. With the whole oil company thing, climbers' cars get towed, fences get put up(both illegally sometimes) we just want to climb on rocks. the oil company wont let us on to their land because they are selfish, we just want to be on a small portion of their land that is practically unused. People do illegal and ethically wrong things, but theres nothing that you can do about it. Its human nature and it will always be that way.
The south will rise again!
Banning a climber this early in the game sets a dangerous precedent in my opinion. I realize the person in question has a way of making people react strongly and often lacks tact he does present questions that I'm sure not only he has asked. I hope banning dirt from climbing in the SR is not a result of comments posted on this discussion board. Boards should not be taken seriously.
That being said, I thank the folks working at the crucible of this matter, I think the Murray purchase is one of the coolest most progressive acts a climber group has done in a long time.
That being said, I thank the folks working at the crucible of this matter, I think the Murray purchase is one of the coolest most progressive acts a climber group has done in a long time.
"Good things take time, impossible things take a little longer"
Percy Gerutty
Percy Gerutty
This is really lame and maddening.
Climbers were asked to avoid the region until further notice for the sake of the purchase and negotiations with the oil company.
Earlier in the game--
We were advised that only rrgcc members truly had been granted permission to climb there. This was handed out for our own protection because of the trespassing signs.
With the car towing and a harder line taken by the oil company, the coalition asked all climbers to avoid the area. It was stated We are Not saying you cannot climb there----because they couldn't. they weren't property owners with any right to say that. but it was made clear that going there could make things that much harder for the wanted end result. So why would you climb there? I'm assuming dirt's becoming a member of hte coallition was for the former problem and to hell with the later. I don't think he should be banned or cast out or what ever, but you've got to appreciate the frustration of those working on the issue . Continually climbing in the area by a member is ridiculous. It's also pretty disingenuous to belong to the organization only through the effort of someone else paying the way.
It's dirt cheap, climbers are able bodied individuals, if you embrace the goals and support the efforts , it's a bit of good faith. Anyone locally with no money but a willingness to help support the rrgcc honestly, send me a PM. I'll put you to work earning your $10.
The question asked is answered for all intents and purposes time and again. The legal semantics dirt seems to be sseeking out can serve no purpose other than inflame climbers and further screw with the situation.
Climbers were asked to avoid the region until further notice for the sake of the purchase and negotiations with the oil company.
Earlier in the game--
We were advised that only rrgcc members truly had been granted permission to climb there. This was handed out for our own protection because of the trespassing signs.
With the car towing and a harder line taken by the oil company, the coalition asked all climbers to avoid the area. It was stated We are Not saying you cannot climb there----because they couldn't. they weren't property owners with any right to say that. but it was made clear that going there could make things that much harder for the wanted end result. So why would you climb there? I'm assuming dirt's becoming a member of hte coallition was for the former problem and to hell with the later. I don't think he should be banned or cast out or what ever, but you've got to appreciate the frustration of those working on the issue . Continually climbing in the area by a member is ridiculous. It's also pretty disingenuous to belong to the organization only through the effort of someone else paying the way.
It's dirt cheap, climbers are able bodied individuals, if you embrace the goals and support the efforts , it's a bit of good faith. Anyone locally with no money but a willingness to help support the rrgcc honestly, send me a PM. I'll put you to work earning your $10.
The question asked is answered for all intents and purposes time and again. The legal semantics dirt seems to be sseeking out can serve no purpose other than inflame climbers and further screw with the situation.
All of this hacking on Dirt because someone else paid his way is bull. I think perhaps you should take your magnificent analysis and look at yourself. He didn't have the money to join so someone else paid for him. Big damn deal. Unlike many people, at least he joined. At least he tries to participate. If he didn't do that, you bitch that he had no rights to argue because he didn't try to join. Now he joins and you gripe about that? Talk about disingenous.
The RRGCC has established itself as a coalition that works to preserve access to climbers. That means all climbers. The advisory was put out and many people continued to climb back there. Dirt is not the only one. He is the most vocal about asking when we can climb. I don't agree with his tactics either but who cares. He has volunteered for the org. and offered his time. Many people have and it hasn't always been well-received.
I believe that the RRGCC will be a success because Shannon is driven and keeps the coalition on track. She's amazing at that. People who cannot stay on that track may not be able to work with the coalition but you can definitely respect the -results. Dirt is just single-minded about getting answers HIS way.
My bigger question is how the they expect to raise money, attract volunteers or continue in these efforts when after THREE DAYS of ownership they threaten to ban a climber. Who's next?
The RRGCC has established itself as a coalition that works to preserve access to climbers. That means all climbers. The advisory was put out and many people continued to climb back there. Dirt is not the only one. He is the most vocal about asking when we can climb. I don't agree with his tactics either but who cares. He has volunteered for the org. and offered his time. Many people have and it hasn't always been well-received.
I believe that the RRGCC will be a success because Shannon is driven and keeps the coalition on track. She's amazing at that. People who cannot stay on that track may not be able to work with the coalition but you can definitely respect the -results. Dirt is just single-minded about getting answers HIS way.
My bigger question is how the they expect to raise money, attract volunteers or continue in these efforts when after THREE DAYS of ownership they threaten to ban a climber. Who's next?
Jesus only knows that she tries too hard. She's only trying to keep the sky from falling.
-Everlast
-Everlast
My bigger question is how the they expect to raise money, attract volunteers or continue in these efforts
It is my opinion that these questions should be asked "How do WE expect to raise the money? How do WE attract volunteers? How do WE continue these efforts?"
I am a firm believer that unless you have supported the RRGCC through time, membership, donations, etc; quit your bitching. It doesn't matter who paid for the dues, ask yourself the question "Haven't you ever received something that you didn't deserve or expect?" I paid for my son's, does that make him any less of a member?
The real work is just beginning and it's going to take the efforts of many to make it happen. Be a part of it so in the end, we can stand together and say "look what we've accomplished!" instead of standing on the outside saying "look what they failed to do!"
If everyone who disagrees with things the RRGCC chose not to support them through membership, volunteering time, and donations, it would be a lonely place with no "power and influence". I don't agree with everything they are doing but I do support them because I believe that they are working towards the betterment of the climbing community, which I am a part of.
I think the RRGCC is doing wonderful things! I can't argue with that! It's just that if dirt is being threatened like this then that, in turn, makes me feel threatened. What if the RRGCC does something that pisses me off? I shouldn't be afraid to express my opinion for fear of being banned from the Southern Region. And if that's the intent then that's even more freaky.
Does he have a strange bear claw like appendage protruding from his neck? He kep petting it.
i don't agree with banning anyone, however how do you handle someone who will not back off something for a while and can threaten the situation further?
he has been given answers time and time again, it is just that he doesn't like the ones he is given.
he is like a little yippy dog that won't leave you be, no offense to yippy dog owners...
he has been given answers time and time again, it is just that he doesn't like the ones he is given.
he is like a little yippy dog that won't leave you be, no offense to yippy dog owners...