Clevis Hitch wrote:I think that there is a difference between Project draws, which may be acceptable. But "permanent" draws which is gear that is abandoned to public domain.
Agree/Disagree?
There is a difference...
Technically, all gear left is abandoned. However, climbers tend to respect the ethic that project draws will be reclaimed by the owner.
Permadraws are viewed as more community owned, donated and left to the public domain with no intent of reclaiming.
The acceptability of one, or both is what we are debating.
krampus wrote:clif, I hope I get to share the wall with you sometime
i'd be my pleasure i'm sure. fair warning though, you know how they talk about a face made for radio? well, i've climbed so little and cyberspace is so big i'm about to move into my mom's basement and start a blog about cupcakes.
Shannon proposed that there was a difference betweeen abandoned and unattended property. I think that the unattended property has to have some sort of qualifier, like its on public land, not private.
I propose that if you are going to be leaving project draws and they are not abandoned or given over to public dispensation. Should be required to be tagged with the owners data. I mean if you care enough to care enough then you tag your shit. Of course this does encroach upon the time honored tradition of taking booty.
personally I'm cool with what has happened. The taking and the rub afterwards. I just don't want to see some sort of onerous rules take effect or any one to gain the authority to tell anyone how to conduct their experience. Wouldn't that be the shit to get strapped down with another arbitrary entity?
If you give a man a match, he'll be warm for a minute. If you set him on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life!
Clevis Hitch wrote: I just don't want to see some sort of onerous rules take effect or any one to gain the authority to tell anyone how to conduct their experience. Wouldn't that be the shit to get strapped down with another arbitrary entity?
I gotta be honest, I don't think you can leave gear in the woods and expect to keep ownership of it while you are away and not open yourself up to a lawsuit. Just the questions of law abound. The sad thing is that if you climbed on someone elses gear and there was a malfunction and you died even though you were a aware of the chances you were taking and your family decided to take it up and they found out who put the draw up six months ago. It could cost you a shit ton in legal fees fighting it in the least. If they could construe assurance somehow you'd be hung out to dry.
I think the stance that we all need to take as far as fixed gear is concerned is that everything is suspect.
If you give a man a match, he'll be warm for a minute. If you set him on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life!
Clevis Hitch wrote: I just don't want to see some sort of onerous rules take effect or any one to gain the authority to tell anyone how to conduct their experience. Wouldn't that be the shit to get strapped down with another arbitrary entity?
+1 for sure
How you compare may not be as important as to whom you are compared
